Mastodawn

I will never not be annoyed that book stores put Wicca and other non-Christian witchy faiths in the "occult, UFO, and other stuffs" section.

Like okay, I'm not Wiccan? But Wicca is a legit faith based on much older practices and deities. They deserve to be treated with respect. As do all of the witchy faiths.

If u go to bookstores, tell them. If u run one, do better.

"Oh but Dio, Wicca is not legit bc it's new and not Judeo "

Rly? Strong words esp coming from Christians, who are from a religious fam tree that has stolen and overwritten so much from older faiths w/o credit or respect that it's basically the Pirate Bay of religious appropriation.

"Wicca is just white women's crystal paganism, blah blah I read Tumblr and am an insufferable gatekeeping shit witch"

Get fked with a rusty pineapple, trash. As if the magic community doesnt have enough probs w/o u trying to divide us.

#Religion #Wiccan #Wicca #FediCoven #Witch #Witchcraft #Occult #Christianity #ReligiousAppropriation

@tiefling Good point. Now I'm tempted to check Wiccan literature at any bookstore I enter.

Diotima 19h ago

It's annoying bc even "alt" bookstores do it. Maybe its just what bookstores do, but it really sends a message of "we consider Judeochristianity better than everything else."

Like I usually see:

Religion (Usually means Islam, Christianity, Judaism. Sometimes Hindu or Buddhism)

World Religion (Usually Hindu, Buddhism. Sometimes Islam is in here. Sometimes a few others like Shinto)

Mythology (Most "classic" religions. Norse, Greek, etc.)

Occult / Spirituality / New Age: Witchy. Usually with UFOs and stuffs, alongside like... cryptids and self help books.

@tiefling Maybe it's because of some Christian narrative? After all, Wicca, witchcraft and "the occult" mostly exist within western (and Christian) societies. I still meet people who use "occult" interchangably with "satanism." And these are not devout Christian. I'd rather guess it's just language of the masses. For the uninitiated and the materialist/atheist, the predominant paradigm on these topics is Christian without them knowing. 1/2

@tiefling Personally, I prefer it this way – having things hidden behind a thin veil of misinformation. It's like a filter. And it's not like people are being hunted because of that, so I'd rather have it this way. Now, of there is a larger benefit of Wicca being recognized as a religion to the point where oblivious materialists placing it in the right library section, I would be annoyed, too. I just don't see one :-) But appreciate your passion on the topic. 2/2

River Crow 12h ago

@cleantext @tiefling

Chiming in, not to be a reply gal, but there are benefits to Wicca being recognised and categorised correctly as a religion in bookstores. It helps to decentre Christianity as the default paradigm of religion, helps people find books they're looking for by being placed in the logical section, introduces Wicca to people who may not know of it, and creates a culture of religious plurality and equality, which also lets people of minority religions feel included and safe. I'm a librarian and I know the battles being fought over what books should be allowed to go where.

@therivercrow @tiefling Thanks for chiming in. I appreciate your perspective. There is hope for change, yes, but perhaps I'm too disconnected from the actual "battlefield." And might have come-off a bit pessimistic, really, but hopefully, that is just my perspective.

I should be running and I'll prob essay expand later, but I agree w @therivercrow here for her reasons and more.

Some of the more:

- The idea that Wicca, other non-Judeo religions should be hidden, even token effort hidden, kind of plays into the whole "these are bad" thing that TBH I think even Wiccans sort of unwittingly buy into.

- Putting Wicca, etc into the "UFOs and Cryptids & Stuff" section uses some of the more outlandish stuffs in those communities to delegitimize us all by association. If "practical witchcraft" is next to, I dunno, "That time I had an alien threesome" then witchcraft is considered "on par." ( I'm not saying UFOs or Cryptids aren't valid, but they do have some fringe ppl.)

- I dunno what others believe, but I believe that reality is a little malleable. So like... for witchcraft to have the power it once had, it... we... need to assert it as if it does. Playing into the "this silly self help fkery" doesn't do that.

...

TBF, it is difficult to figure out the right path. Most westerners do think Wicca / Euro Traditions = witchcraft, but there are SO many cultures and approaches outside of that. I really think we need to educate ourselves on those and consider them allies. And add those to the shelves too.

Oh and uhm. The whole "but Christians will be scared if we're too witchy" thing?

TOUGH. They have murdered and oppressed us for long enough. If us taking back our power scares them, they should look at WHY.

River Crow 8h ago

@tiefling all excellent points too, and I agree that its a tactic to delegitimise certain beliefs and reinforce others. And for us to assert our power and right to our religions/faiths/paths.

@therivercrow @tiefling I appreciate both your attitude. It's a noble pursuit. Since, both, the good and the bad can be true at the same time, let me try add an additional perspective. Two things first:

1) No second opinion on the level of cretinism for placing Wicca, Witchcraft and adjacent practices on one shelf with the UFOs. It feels ironic as such stupidity is characteristic to people allergic to books and reading.

1/

@therivercrow @tiefling

2) I am familiar with witchcraft and other aspects of the occult, such as the shadowfolk, but I haven't looked into Wicca as a religion. Since I haven't "traversed the wheel" please let me know if I'm missing something in our discussion.

Dethroning Christianity in "the year of our Lord" 2026 is fine with me, however:

Would that not create an influx of frustrated teenagers (of ages up to 13 to 50) that will be flinging curses at their ego's whim?

2/

@therivercrow @tiefling

Right now, the seekers seek and the rest are busy figuring out how to serve their will in less dangerous ways.

And just how shallow can everything become if its commercialized further?

And, please note, I'm pushing the conversation in this direction not because I'm against literature occupying it's rightful section in a bookstore.

...I'm just wondering if it will really be beneficial to participants new and old, not just the status of the religion.

3/

@therivercrow @tiefling

Closing thought.

What is your perspective on the following: in my modest experience, the attitude of "normies" towards witchcraft/Wicca falls into three categories: 1) put us in the same boat with baby-eating Baal worshippers; 2) don't give a damn, prefer to watch Netflix instead; 3) Engage in witchcraft for, to quote: "the aesthetic".

Or otherwise put: won't popularity ruin the filter?

@therivercrow @tiefling

Edit: won't popularity ruin the filter for newcomers that is the current obscurity?

River Crow 3h ago

@cleantext @tiefling

I don't think having the craft (wicca or anything) locked behind a filter is helpful. There was a time when that was needed (satanic panic and all) but now the world needs magical practices more than ever. Sure, there'll be some people who'll do it for the aesthetic or fling curses around without understanding but thats precisely why we need accurate and accessible information as opposed to whatevers happening on WitchTok and tumblr.

And perhaps people who start out paddling in the shallows will get deeper with learning.

Gatekeeping never helps a movement.

@therivercrow @tiefling Okay, I looked up "WitchTok" on YouTube and it turns out my concern is too late to the party... Ugh, I hope divine justice sorts this mess out.

As for gatekeeping, by "filter" I was referring to... imagine a peaceful camping place up in the mountain. The path to it – thorny and wicked. Whoever makes the effort to traverse it, would be "real", right? Would you open it up for SUVs and campers, though? Asking rhetorically, as the SUVs are pouring through tiktok, it seems.

I'm out, so short.

I'm 100% not Wiccan, but Wiccan is mostly nice. Rule of three, do no harm, all that.

But.

We're dealing with a murder god and (at the upper levels) his minions who murder, kill, steal, and oppress their way across cultures around the world.

They're due some curses.

River Crow 3h ago

@tiefling @cleantext

Fwiw, also not Wiccan but have studied it and trained in the craft with teachers who were wiccan.

And a witch who cannot curse cannot heal.

@therivercrow @tiefling

/sarcastically/ I try to take the moral high ground with justice spells.

Thanks for your thoughts, River Crow, I learned some things. Although what I saw on YouTube was mildly infuriating :D

P.S. WitchTok made me also realize I should perhaps also work more on psychic defence and warding my person before I ever travel abroad again.

@tiefling @therivercrow I've thought about that and wondered if there's activity (fighting back) in the larger picture. Would you please expand a bit or point me in a direction to learn more? DMs also open.