Mastodawn

RE: https://tldr.nettime.org/@remixtures/116356810759725972

Does Israel have a right to exist?

Yes, about as much as Nazi Germany or any other state guilty of settler colonialism, apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and genocide. Which is to say none whatsoever.

What we have, as human beings, is the right to hold Israel responsible for its crimes, bring it to justice, and extract reparations to ease the plight of the survivors (even though even that won’t undo the incalculable suffering and loss). But we’re not doing that. And by not doing that we are failing our own test of humanity.

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Joanne Jacobs 1d ago

@aral the people have a right to exist. The government dies not have that right because they have broken international laws on genocide.

I know you will say the people voted for the government, but the people have not supported the war on Gaza or indeed the war against Iran and other parts of the Gulf.

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Aral Balkan 1d ago

@joannejacobs When 82% of your population supports the expulsion of Palestinians from Gaza and when those people are actively involved in commiting genocide, it becomes very difficult to separate the people from the state.

https://zeteo.com/p/its-not-just-netanyahu-a-lot-of-israelis

And it’s not getting better.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/politics-and-diplomacy/article-892032

We didn’t say Nazi Germany shouldn’t exist but Nazis are fine. Nazis are not fine. Nazis will never be fine.

(In case there’s any doubt, Zionists are the Nazis in this analogy.)

It's Not Just Netanyahu. A Lot of Israelis Want Genocide, Too

Recent polling reveals that the ‘genocide fever’ in Israeli society has reached its logical conclusion: ‘If we can get rid of them all, why not?’

Zeteo

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Joanne Jacobs 1d ago

@aral look you know I agree that the egregious acts of the state are war crimes. I'm just not willing to accept that the agenda of some represents all.

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Mogleg

@joannejacobs
To be frank, whe you leave your homes in Europe or America and travel to an occupied territory that implements apartheid against the indigenous people, actively stealing their land and displacing the original inhabitants… there’s not much daylight between the acts of the government and the governed. By participating in the occupation you’re actively supporting its agenda. This literally the nazi bar parable.

@aral

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Joanne Jacobs 1d ago

@Mogleg absolutely, and indeed it is the history of almost every continent on earth. I live in Australia - a land that has been occupied and has disenfranchised the indigenous culture that lived here for 60,000 years before the white man, and probably before most cultures were established across the globe. I'm part of the problem, certainly. I've voted for a Voice to Parliament for our First Nations people. That constitutional change was rejected by the majority. But I'll continue to do what I can to forward their needs because change comes with persistence in the face of this prejudice. @aral