Billy O'NealApr 6
I don't know, having people who use the system more pay more for it seems appropriate to me.
Show threadXarn

In abstract? Sure. In specifics? Wellllll, that's much harder to say.

For example, I think most people agree that we do not want people to pay for their healthcare usage directly. Similarly, since the _need_ to use car for travel for work tends to be inversely proportional with your socioeconomic class, simple direct usage taxes on roads end up regressive.

Apr 6 at 8:57amWeb
Show threadXarnApr 6

Since this is in the US under the current administration, I assume that the proposal is hilariously stupid anyway, but it really isn't that easy.

(And that's before even going into what you use to calculate the taxes. Direct CO2 emissions? Well, that incentivizes electric cars so good, right? But now you argue that the stupid >4 ton electric humvee uses roads less than our 1 ton >40 mpg gas car.

Curb weight? Has the reverse problem. Simple distance? Then you have no incentive for efficiency.)

Show threadBilly O'Neal6d ago

@horenmar It's a proposal to replace the federal gas tax with a vehicle registration tax based on weight.

> Simple distance? Then you have no incentive for efficiency.

I don't think road infrastructure *needs* to be funded in a way that incentivizes efficiency. But I do think it should be as proportional as possible to one's use of the system.

Show threadXarn6d ago

@malwareminigun

> But I do think it should be as proportional as possible to one's use of the system.

Then weight has to be an important part of the formula, because it is the dominant factor of wear & tear, and almost hilariously so.

Show threadBilly O'Neal6d ago
@horenmar It seems reasonable for weight to be included somehow, though I am told almost no consumer applications are heavy enough to matter much. (The heaviest 'consumer' vehicle I know of is Silverado EV which is around 10'000 lbs/4'500 kg, while semis' limit is 82'000 lbs/37'000 kg. Yes semis have more axles but we're still talking 50% more weight *per axle* than the whole vehicle...)
Show threadXarn4d ago

@malwareminigun But that semi has both more axles and wider tires. Also over here that semi pays its own road tax category, which scales up quickly with weight (and scales down with axle count).

In "personal" vehicles, that Silverado causes roughly order of magnitude more road damage than our family car, and IMO that should be reflected somehow. (Apart from it not being personal vehicle over here as it doesn't fit within B class 🙃)

Show threadBilly O'Neal6d ago
@horenmar I strongly disagree. Living somewhere that forces you to commute a long distance to live in the 'burbs' is a choice. The status quo is that we subsidize the shit out of sprawl and suburbia by having almost no 'user pays' on the infrastructure.
Show threadXarn6d ago

@malwareminigun Is it a choice though?

Rent for ~50m2, 2+1
* in Prague city centre: 25k+, without utilities.
* in Prague city, outskirts: 20k+
* Louny (easy-ish car travel to Prague via highway): 10-12k

Pretax Prague salary of
* Cashier: 35-40k
* Social worker: 30-35k
* Janitors: 20-30k
* Preschool educators (not sure what the english name is): 30-40k
...

Simple math tells you that various low-paid positions simple can't afford to live in the place they work at.

Show threadBilly O'Neal6d ago
@horenmar It's true that there are some folks for whom it truly isn't a choice, but I think in aggregate most of the time over here it is people who want a detached single family home, a lawn, and a cul-de-sac. And it's fine to want those things but I think it is bad for society that we subsidize the hell out of it.