Mastodawn

King Naga Calyo Lucere-Delphi 20h ago

@chirpbirb Hot damn, yeah, that's a power move.

I'm not sure how I really feel about that, but at the same time:

All passion project software is provided as-is with no warranty, express or implied, and no guarantee of extended long-term support for any version past, current, or future.

The creators and maintainers of passion project software can decide at any time to abandon the project for any reason.

luna the doggie

@chirpbirb damn maybe people will finally start not taking shit for granted

@lunareclipse @chirpbirb nah, they will now shit on the maintainer

then fork it and revert that commit, as well as rename main to master

taco, bird/cat

@alice @lunareclipse ah, i can see the "feat(freedom): liberate repository"

princess pancake

@chirpbirb @alice @lunareclipse librevim - without the woke

Acid Plushy

@natty @lunareclipse @chirpbirb @alice wokevim

@lunareclipse @chirpbirb same as what happened with duckstation

the developer got so fed up with linux users he changed license to one that prohibits distribution (i.e. you can use the provided builds or build it yourself, but not package it) - and ofc linux users respected it and quietly left...

...haha no, they declared the developer the devil, and were (and still are) like: I don't care, you can't stop me

🏳️‍🌈🎃🇧🇷Luana🇧🇷🎃🏳️‍🌈19h ago

@lunareclipse @chirpbirb @alice duckstation is a completely different story

@luana @lunareclipse @chirpbirb how so?

Raven667 17h ago

@alice @lunareclipse @chirpbirb huh, funny coincidence in timeline https://s3kshun8.games/blog/flatpak-won/

Gabe Newell Is Shitting Yacht Money into Flatpak and You're Still Arguing about Init Systems

S3kshun8's Lair

17h ago

@raven667 that's a pretty good writeup

i feel bad for the person who wrote it because of the kind of replies they will get

17h ago

@raven667 what i hate the most about this situaton is - a lot of the people the article is talking about are perfectly reasonable people... as long as linux is not mentioned

like - as a developer who is similarly focused on making a usable app development platform, I'm more familiar with that kind of people than I'd like to

Sydney / Prophet 🏳️‍⚧️🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿3h ago

@raven667 @alice @lunareclipse @chirpbirb I rather like this writeup because as a Semi new Linux user (4 years and change) AppImage fucking sucks ass, I spent hours and hours trying to figure out how to integrate it into my DE and couldn't for the life of me work it out, because one piece of Software only shipped as an AppImage

eobet 2h ago

@raven667 @alice @lunareclipse @chirpbirb that article read weird to me. Are they saying that all corporations sinking billions into Linux are benevolent? As if the corruption of Mozilla by Google’s money never happened?

Justin Fitzsimmons 18h ago

@alice @lunareclipse @chirpbirb they were already able to do that the whole time, now the toxic harassers can deal with their own toxic harassers instead 🤷‍♂️

electron tamer in training 🍂11h ago

@lunareclipse @chirpbirb yeah, as stated in the fucking license, maintainers don’t owe anything to anyone

Some months ago someone was trying to force me to accept their PR, I told multiple times that I will review it anytime soon when I have some energy again

They was still pushy, poking me every couple of weeks, sucking my energy like a vampire

So I took my distance to not suffer and now we’re 9 months later and I don’t give a fuck and will return when I’ll be ready 🤷‍♀️

electron tamer in training 🍂11h ago

@lunareclipse @chirpbirb I’m so pissed out of people acting like I am at their complete disposal that my latest works are using this license where the only condition is that there is absolutely no warranty in any way

> Usage of the works is permitted provided that this instrument is retained with the works, so that any entity that uses the works is notified of this instrument.
> DISCLAIMER: THE WORKS ARE WITHOUT WARRANTY.

🩷💜 PYNK 💜🩷19h ago

@chirpbirb
a shitstain named shustain

nominative determinism strikes again

Frawst 19h ago

@pynk @chirpbirb kojima youve done it again

lia 19h ago

@chirpbirb To be fair, making an at least somewhat functional plugin crash on some versions just because you don't officially support them is quite hostile and practically malware.

Of course they can maintain whatever versions they want, and the other guy is a dick, but deliberately making it crash when users use it "wrong" is quite toxic. Especially for something as essential as a text editor. Livelihoods could be at stake

krig 18h ago

@lianna @chirpbirb If ”livelihoods are at stake” then they can do the most basic amount of work required, read the readme and just pin the commit they want. Come on.

Steven Reed 17h ago

@lianna @chirpbirb bailing out with an error message is hardly "making it crash" - and at the end of the day how hard is it to click the fork button and revert that change? Bearing in mind this software pretty much guaranteed to be used by people with development experience.

Graham Sutherland / Polynomial 17h ago

@lianna @chirpbirb

> practically malware

can we please stop saying this. it's patently not true and just waters down the term "malware" to the point where it's useless. there are other terms you can use.

Talya (she/her) 🏳️‍⚧️✡️17h ago

@gsuberland @lianna @chirpbirb
gotta love it when the comments just prove the maintainer right...

lia 11h ago

@Yuvalne @gsuberland @chirpbirb I guess making people's setups crash if you don't like their software is now completely acceptable in Mastodon reply-guy land. what a wonderful eternal september we're having on fedi

Talya (she/her) 🏳️‍⚧️✡️9h ago

@lianna @gsuberland @chirpbirb
step 1: make an experimental plugin an indispensable part of your workflow.
step 2: ignoring the implications of step 1, use said plugin in an undocumented way.
step 3: bully the maintainer into supporting your unsupported usage.
step 4: ???
step 5: profi– oh nvm we made the maintainer quit FOSS and now the indispensable plugin is abandonware. dang. didn't see that coming.

Mitsunee 4h ago

@lianna @Yuvalne @gsuberland @chirpbirb simply remove the plugin and it stops crashing? a plugin written for a future version of a software is not "malware" when it's being used wrong

Talya (she/her) 🏳️‍⚧️✡️4h ago

@mitsunee @gsuberland @chirpbirb @lianna
or pin an older version, like the maintainer suggested....

slyborg 14h ago

@gsuberland @lianna @chirpbirb ‘literally Hitler’

lia 11h ago

@gsuberland @chirpbirb Malware is defined by software with unwanted, unexpected, malicious behaviour. Not every piece of malware needs to result in data breaches or something serious to be malware. Even a jumpscare screensaver is malware per definition.

Intentionally crashing your text editor if the maintainer is upset at your personal setup is pretty squarely in malware territory.

@lianna @gsuberland @chirpbirb

vampirdaddy 1h ago

Well, it was pretty solid migration path for breaking changes - especially for an _experimental_ plugin:

1.) announce impending breaking incompatibilities - but keep legacy quirks enabled even if that's hindering development

(wait)

2.) give alerts/warning about the really coming breaks when old API is called - still works

(wait)

3.) throw proper errors for legacy API calls instead of silent/unpredictable fails

drbrain 13h ago

@lianna @chirpbirb as an eight year maintainer of a packaging tool for a popular programming language there is no fully acceptable way to deprecate features. Someone will loudly, annoyingly complain no matter what path is chosen. From my multiple personal experiences attempting this I will never fault a maintainer’s choice

lia 11h ago

@drbrain @chirpbirb I mean, not going ahead actively putting effort into implementing sabotage features to crash setups is pretty easy. The ideal – if not perfect – solution would probably have been a deprecation warning and that's it.

drbrain 10h ago

@lianna @chirpbirb warnings gave no fewer annoyed users and, when it was time to remove the functionality, the same types of complaints that lead to nvim-treesitter being archived

“You were warned” did not stop them, plus I had to deal with complaints about the warning for N extra months during the warning period

✨ Mia’s Simulacrum 🏳️‍⚧️✨7h ago

@lianna @chirpbirb

SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!

Syl (Sylvia Bun) :enby_inside:

2h ago

@lianna @chirpbirb Considering this isn't a stable plugin, nobody should be using it for anything related to livelihood yet. If someone chooses to do so, that is entirely on them.

MeaningfulBits 19h ago

@chirpbirb one of my very first interactions online was me bitching about how some version of a Linux audio driver wasn't working with my PC on a forum. I got a response that it was open source and to either pay someone, fix it myself, or shut up. I was 13 and that was 20 years ago. Some people aren't built for this open source life.

Kura

:kura_explode:19h ago

@chirpbirb did that back then with a discord modding framework too.

too many entitled kids.

джулія 18h ago

@chirpbirb

this is insane

i wish good luck and big patience for the dev in their future projects, honestly

@chirpbirb based

@chirpbirb wow, that's almost acting like an adult.

Of course, you have this power and of course you can drop the ball like this, but it doesn't help anyone.

That "power move" is a move you get to make once, maybe twice in your life. Rage quitting a project because one guy asks for it, isn't really building confidence in you.

flammableengineering 11h ago

@chirpbirb

This is funny as hell but I think the right move would have been to ban the shitty user

Talya (she/her) 🏳️‍⚧️✡️5h ago

@flammableengineering @chirpbirb true, but then we wouldn't be talking about this. if this going viral convinces at least some people to not become ban-worthy dicks, then it was probably for the better for that to happen.

Tim Yocum 9h ago

@chirpbirb many moons ago I got fed up with the entitlement on the Undernet irc server I ran. I walked into the “machine room” (like I said, moons) and carried the server to my desk where I repurposed it as my workstation.

Petty? Yes. Childish? Kinda still was one. Satisfying? To this very day.

Tor Lillqvist 7h ago

@chirpbirb I remember back when I did the port of GIMP (and thus GTK and all that it depended on) to Windows, and had a mailing list called gimpwin-users or something like that.

Obviously, there were a lot of entitled users who were angry that I didn't fix their pet bugs very quickly. At around the same time, my own interest in GIMP and GTK was waning, and I had started doing full-time paid work on other open-source things (if I recall correctly). So finally some annoying arsehole pushed me over the limit and I just killed the mailing list. It was such a relief.

pentane 🇺🇦5h ago

@chirpbirb

>refuses to elaborate
>leaves

Navi

5h ago

@chirpbirb demanding support without giving the maintainer money is delusional too

Holy W

@chirpbirb When will People stop treating like maintainers of a hobby project owe them anything. I mean yeah, blocking older versions just because isn't that nice, but maybe there is some buggy behaviour you don't see right now.
But nevertheless, it's a project of another person that they kindly shared with you not some Product you paid for.

Mitsunee 4h ago

@chirpbirb people crying when a single project doesn't use semver "properly", but still refuse to understand that v0.x means "pre-release"