GrapheneOS1d ago

Gaël Duval is the founder and president of the /e/ foundation along with the CEO of Murena. Duval and his organizations have consistently taken a stance against protecting users from exploits. In this video, he once again claims protecting against exploits is only useful for pedophiles and spies.

Translation to English:

> There's the attack surface, on that front we're not security specialists here, so I couldn't answer you precisely, but from the discussions I've had, it seems that everything

Show threadGrapheneOS1d ago
> we do reduces attack surface. However, we don't have a "hardened security" approach, we aren't developing a phone for pedo(censored) so they can evade justice. So there aren't difficult things to check if the memory is corrupted, really hardened security stuff that could clearly be useful for executives, in the secret service, or whatever. That's not our goal, our goal is to start from an observation: today our personal data is constantly being plundered and that wouldn't be legal in real life
Show threadGrapheneOS1d ago
> with the mail or the telephone, we want to change that. So we are making you a product that changes that by default for anyone.
Show threadGrapheneOS1d ago

Transcription in French:

> Il y a la surface d'attaque, là pour le coup on est pas des spécialistes de la sécurité, donc je ne pourrais pas te répondre avec précision, mais des discussions que j'ai eu, il semblerait que tout ce qu'on fait, ça réduit la surface d'attaque. Donc oui, probablement ça aide. Par contre, on a pas une approche "sécurité durcie", on développe pas un téléphone pour les pédo(bip) pour qu'ils puissent échapper à la justice. Donc il y a pas des trucs pas possibles pour voir

Show threadGrapheneOS1d ago
> si la mémoire est pas corrompue, des trucs de sécu vraiment durcis qui pourraient être utiles clairement pour des dirigeants, dans les services secrets ou que sais-je. C'est pas notre but, notre but c'est de partir d'un constat, aujourd'hui nos données personnelles sont pillées en permanence et ça serait pas légal dans la vraie vie avec le courrier ou le téléphone, on veut changer ça. Donc on vous fait un produit qui change ça par défaut pour n'importe quelle personne.
Show threadGrapheneOS1d ago
GrapheneOS exists to protect users from having their privacy invaded by arbitrary individuals, corporations and states. Privacy depends on security. GrapheneOS heavily improves both privacy and security while providing a high level of usability and near perfect app compatibility.
Show threadGrapheneOS1d ago
/e/ has far worse privacy and security than the Android Open Source Project. They fail to keep up with important standard privacy and security patches for Android, Linux, firmware, drivers and HALs. They fail to provide current generation Android privacy and security protections.
Show threadGrapheneOS1d ago
For years, Gaël Duval has spearheaded a campaign to misrepresent GrapheneOS as not being usable, not compatible with apps and only useful to a tiny minority of people. He has repeatedly claimed GrapheneOS is for pedophiles, criminals and spies while claiming /e/ is for everyone.
Show threadBlue Luma1d ago

@GrapheneOS I don't think you should attack frontally others like that whenever 😶

Reminding security is privacy is good.
Responding to attacks is good (which is not the case *here*)

I understand its CEO and the Murena company might have attack the GrapheneOS project in the past, and responding to that was normal too.

But I don't see attacking /e/OS like that often as a positive feedback in general. A simple reminder could have been enough.

❤️ on the GrapheneOS project btw

Show threadXtreix

@blueluma @GrapheneOS

"I don't think you should attack frontally others like that whenever"

Gael Duval attack GrapheneOS, GrapheneOS responds to these attacks.

"I understand its CEO and the Murena company might have attack the GrapheneOS project in the past"

It's not in the past, these attacks are recuring, and he does it again in this recent video. Duval has been waging a disinformation campaign against GOS for years.

Apr 5 at 9:32pmWeb
Show threadBlue Luma22h ago
@Xtreix @GrapheneOS this post does not respond to a direct attack as far as I know
Show threadGrapheneOS22h ago
@blueluma @Xtreix It's a response to a long series of attacks by Duval on GrapheneOS claiming it's only useful for pedophiles, criminals and spies. He didn't specifically name GrapheneOS as part of the interview we showed a clip from but he certainly has elsewhere on a regular basis. We felt people would take it more seriously with him saying it out loud in a video as opposed to his regular posts across platforms where he says it. That's why we chose this over the many other cases he did it.
Show threadSomeAnoTooter16h ago
@GrapheneOS @blueluma @Xtreix I also think it's not the best to directly attack them and others. Stating that GOS is better than others and how smooth it works can be presented in a better way. I'm not a PR specialist but disputing false claims maybe can be done in a better way without "sounding desperate". Sry not native English and therefore don't finding the right words.
GOS is strong and works nice and I I'm so excited about the Motorola cooperation. Keep on with this awesome work.
Show threadGrapheneOS9h ago

@SomeAnoTooter @blueluma @Xtreix The way we're handling it is working fine. /e/ and Murena are enemies of privacy as they've made clear by repeatedly claiming serious privacy protections are only for pedophiles, criminals and spies. This isn't the first time they're saying it.

They're promoting an approach where they avoid some Google apps/services while adding a bunch of Google services to the OS and use DNS filtering to block low hanging fruit but not the most privacy invasive behavior.

Show threadGrapheneOS9h ago
@SomeAnoTooter @blueluma @Xtreix DNS filtering is not a serious approach to privacy. It does not stop apps sending whatever they want to whoever they want. In practice, it does not stop nearly any of the most privacy invasive behavior because it's done via the same domains as the useful functionality and they aren't blocking that. It's trivial for apps to bypass and many are doing it by having fallback to hard-wired IPs or using their own DNS resolution from the beginning to entirely bypass it.
Show threadGrapheneOS9h ago
@SomeAnoTooter @blueluma @Xtreix Murena and /e/ are undermining privacy as a whole by repeatedly claiming in multiple formats that serious privacy and security protections as only being for pedophiles, criminals and spies. Since they're presenting themselves as advocates for privacy selling privacy products, the fact that they're pushing these talking points makes it far more damaging. It's going to contribute to the ongoing crackdown on privacy and encryption in France. They're not allies.
Show threadBlue Luma22h ago
@Xtreix @GrapheneOS I've only watched the short section of the videos from the post, do you have a source of the complete video so I could watch it and see the direct attack to GrapheneOS in it as you mention 👀
Show threadXtreix15h ago

@blueluma @GrapheneOS Duval's statement at 5:07:

“We don't have a hardened security approach, we're not developing a phone so that pedophiles (word censored in the video) can evade justice.

So there aren't any advanced features, like checking if the memory is corrupted, etc, really hardened features that might be useful for presidents, secret agents, and so on...”

The reference to a hardened phone intended for pedophiles is a direct reference to GrapheneOS, the only hardened mobile operating system available, as well as to phones compatible with the project and any other projects or devices that might adopt the same approach. These verbal statements follow a long series of false claims about GrapheneOS on social media.

He then states that this hardening may prove effective, but continues with the fallacious logic that it is useful only for high-value, targeted individuals or criminals, and that lambda people would never need it and would have no reason to use enhanced security to protect their data. He claims that GrapheneOS is for a minority and that /e/OS is for everyone.

Show threadBlue Luma12h ago

@Xtreix @GrapheneOS
> ... a direct reference to GrapheneOS, the only hardened mobile operating system available...

I thought (from this thread https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/116354085393739314) that iOS is (or can be) hardened as well as GrapheneOS, with some minor differences I think

GrapheneOS (@[email protected])

GrapheneOS and iOS are both heavily focused on privacy and security. Both are gradually adding much stronger protections against apps/sites scraping data, coercion users into giving data via alternatives with case-by-case consent and increasingly strong exploit protections.

GrapheneOS Mastodon
Show threadGrapheneOS9h ago
@blueluma @Xtreix We didn't say that but rather said Apple is doing similar work on seriously protecting people's privacy and security including from sophisticated attacks. Sophisticated attacks may be done by state actors but aren't exclusive to them. They're also hardly strictly very targeted attacks but rather are also deployed quite broadly. Apple has at least publicly taken a stance similar to GrapheneOS of trying to protect users against state surveillance with technical measures.
Show threadGrapheneOS9h ago
@blueluma @Xtreix We didn't compare the protections offered by them there but rather said we're working on similar things for similar reasons. It's a contrast with /e/ where these protections in both GrapheneOS and iOS are consistently being portrayed as only protecting pedophiles, criminals and spies. It's utter nonsense. The vast majority of people these protections benefit are none of those things. Violation of basic human rights by states is also pervasive and happens in the west too.