Scott Jenson2d ago

Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber? This post from @carnage4life has me questioning our community. The Mastodon team is finally getting some traction, the product improvements are increasing, The #UX is improving, yet people posting on multiple platforms are making comments like this. It's confusing.

I *know* people here don't want this to be a classic social media-clone but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!

Show threadScott Jenson2d ago

As this conversation is spiraling a bit I want to make a few things clear:
1. I'd like Mastodon to be MORE inclusive and bring in more voices
2. Some people don't seem to want that
3. This is core problem to solve: How do we let more in, but not "pollute" your feed?
4. The solution is NOT "gatekeeping", revelling in the fact that AI journalists aren't welcome
5. This is the same reason we lost "Black Twitter" when it came over in 2022

Yes, a lot of you don't want AI posts in your feed (or pick any other topic) but the solution isn't to keep "AI People" from joining Mastodon, any more than it is keeping marginalized communities off of Mastodon.

Show threadrakoo2d ago
@scottjenson

wowowo please don't turn things around. AI people are _not_ marginalized, it's the exact opposite. AI people are rich, white, male tech people who see the increase in personal comfort as more important than others' actual life. Those are the people who are _anti-black_. By letting AI people in you are not learning the lessons of the past. You are specifically repeating the mistake, letting racists, sexists, ableists in, pushing away the people who made activitypub what it is today.

Please think better about what "marginalized" actually means
Show threadScott Jenson2d ago

@rakoo oh FFS put your pitchfork down. You're creating a strawman and claiming it's me. I'm not equating the two! I'm saying "intellectual purity" tests cut both ways. If you're willing to slam all "AI people" as techbros influencers and want to kick them out, that can slide into any other topic or group.

My goal was to say inclusivity is hard, *especially* when it concerns groups that aren't marginalized. But not caring about these people makes it even easier to then affect marginalized peope.

I'm bringing this topic up BECAUSE black twitter was chased off this platform in 2022 and I'm really pissed that we haven't learned our lesson, we're still chasing people off (even if they aren't marginalized)

Show threadrakoo
@scottjenson The reasons black people were rejected are _not_ the same reasons techbros are being rejected. You need to learn about what racism is: it's not a lack of inclusivity or being closed to different opinions, it's the structure we are all swimming in that is racist and needs to be worked on. It's the black people saying "please don't make it hard for us" and not listening to them. The women saying "replyguys are annoying" and not giving them an infrastructure that works for them by default. The work is on acknowledging the structure we're in, the actions we do that keep it in motion.

You're approaching this as a simple intellectual dissensus, a divergence in opinions, when it just isn't.

Groups that aren't marginalized don't matter. Society gives them all the tools, comfort and mindspace to take care of what they want to do. Focusing on them only enforces the marginalization of others. Instead, focusing on the marginalized and their needs help reduce disparities for everyone instead.

Non-marginalized people didn't leave because they were suffering yet again the same marginalization they endure everywhere else; they leave because they don't find what they want. Which is fine.
Apr 5 at 5:58pmWeb
Show threadScott Jenson2d ago
@rakoo That was an amazing answer. Thank you.
Show threadrakoo2d ago
@scottjenson you might not be the stereotypical pro-white pro-cis man, but the focus of your attention and the way you approach systemic issues might put forward those people: we can't naively say "I'm clean", we're all a part of this because we've all been in there for so long. I think the very first move is to listen to what marginalized people have been saying for ages and start from there. There is no need for yet another discussion, as if the topic was new or still too vague. Recognizing marginalized people, considering them as equals whose voice and expertise should guide us, this is where we must start
Show threadNazani1d ago
@rakoo @scottjenson
" focusing on the marginalized and their needs help reduce disparities for everyone instead"
You're obviously aware of what's called the curb-cut effect. For those unfamiliar with the term:
https://ssir.org/articles/entry/the_curb_cut_effect
The Curb-Cut Effect

Laws and programs designed to benefit vulnerable groups, such as the disabled or people of color, often end up benefiting all of society.

Stanford Social Innovation Review