If there is no masculinity that is not an expression of patriarchy.........
If there is no such thing as non-toxic masculinity............
Then it stands to reason that the only moral/righteous gender is that of femininity, and it stands to reason that the only way for trans men to be good people is to detransition/never transition in the first place
And that, dear reader, is some TERF/TIRF bullshit.
Related.
*looks pointedly over at Talia Bhatt, who hosts a whole podcast with a whole detransitioned trans man*
@forestine @so_treu first time hearing about these asshats. These girls need to read some feminist writing by someone who isn’t white woman that hates trans and queer people. Like, just start with basic ideas like hegemonic and subjugated masculinities, and subaltern masculinities and all these radfem arguments fall the fuck apart.
It also speaks to me of transfems who didn’t actually engage with feminism before transition and do the work of dealing with toxic masculinity back when the world was still trying to foist masculinity on them. I’m thankful I did, because it clarified a lot of shit when it was time to nurture and cultivate my femininity
(note: since it wasn’t clear to some: not calling the TIRF in question a white woman. I don’t know her, but apparently she’s South Asian. I spcifically was referring above to the lineage of thought and “feminism” that she’s pulling from, which is people who were largely white women who were uncomfortable with or hated trans people and queerness.)
@forestine @elexia oops, sorry, I genuinely don’t know this person. I was more reacting to just what was shared and how I’ve seen this stuff most often among white trans women. Thanks for calling me out and letting me know, I’ll add a note.
And the “hates trans and queer people” is because even if the person is trans, hating on other trans and queer people or cozying up to TERFs who hate us is still that.
@forestine @elexia oh, actually, realizing I didn’t call her white (didn’t think I did). I was referring to the people that TIRFs are engaging with: radfems who were mostly white cis women who hated trans people and queerness.
It’s actually kind of surprising that an Indian woman would be so into that, given South Asian feminists are critiquing these same people. Like, they need to read Teju and engage with the subaltern, desperately.
@elexia to be clear: I don’t know anything about Bhatt and am really not trying to make claims about her. I would suggest going back and reading my original reply. I wasn’t really making any claims about Bhatt because I don’t know her. I didn’t claim she was white and I didn’t make specific claims about her.
What I was responding to was the discussion of TIRFs (Trans-inclusive radfems) in general (who I called “these asshats”). The intellectual lineage they are pulling from is one that specifically third wave feminism critiqued for centering white womanhood, enabled racism, and fostered Janice Raymond and the other TERFs. And by saying cozying up to TERFs, I might be a bit hyperbolic. I don’t follow that community much, but adopting big chunks of their ideology and arguing that trans men should detransition because masculinity is inherently evil is, just in my personal opinion, similar to cozying up to them.
If you think I’m wrong, I’m open to discussion on the topic. I don’t have the spoons to chase down this stuff, so I’m open to others sharing things and being educated. What makes you think Bhatt shouldn’t be described that way? What about the larger TIRF space? 🙂
RI DaSēr K
forestine
Joscelyn Transpiring
refraction 