So apparently today the thing that has me screaming is living in a society built on hurting kids.

Not just child sexual abuse.

Every kind of harm & exploitation.

Why am I not having kids? Well, one reason is that I feel like there are plenty of kids in the world *already* for me to worry about, & there will always be more.

Maybe this is part of what upsets the right wing folks when childless people are concerned about the welfare of kids.

You're not supposed to worry about "other people's kids" (otherwise known as human beings with their own rights).

At BEST you're only supposed to worry about your kids, but even then, you're supposed to worry about competing for things, not their fucking well-being as individuals.

You're not supposed to look at a child & see a person. You're supposed to see *property*.

A childless adult concerned about the rights & needs of children has no "skin in the game" in their minds. If you *aren't* a child, & you don't have children of your own, then how does it affect you if children are suffering?

It does actually affect me in a number of ways, but even if it didn't, what the fuck? Is the question they are asking "why do you care about human beings?" or is it "why do you think children are human beings?"

Trick question! It's both.

But goddamn. Hurting kids is just so fucking NORMAL in our world, & it has to stop.

We don't need age verification online (a surveillance ploy). We need to stop normalizing the abuse & exploitation of children in every area of life & culture.

Keeping a kid off the Internet doesn't fucking protect them from the predatory adults around them. In fact, it may make them more vulnerable than ever.

I mean, I love my parents & I know they have always loved me, so how tf were they so convinced that they needed to *"break my will"* as a child?

Because breaking a child's will is just what you do, that's why! You break them down. You teach them their "no" means nothing. You teach them they aren't even allowed to say "no". You punish every act of independence & forbid their anger. You demand that they always obey & "respect" adults without question.

You know, normal, healthy shit.

@artemis

I'm sorry that this happened to you. or to any kid. It wasn't my experience. And I made sure it wasn't my kids experience. I consciously constantly give my kids the agency that was appropriate to their developmental level. Interestingly I also got heavily into dog "training" methods that also are all about the dog's agency. You can kind of look at the two main dog "training" methods and see that raising kids mirrors those two ideas. I do scare quotes around "training"

@artemis

Because the view of those in the positive reinforcement + agency side is really that it's more like dog relationship building. Yes there's learning going on, but it's really important that the dog *trusts* you and wants to be with you.

Same for kids really. And broken in the same ways for dogs and kids. The whole "breaking down" and brainwashing and creating learned helplessness thing is right there in the dog training manuals for the other side.

@artemis

In fact, it'd be a great thing to write an explicitly Anarchist dog training manual, and teach people about human Anarchy ideas through dog training.

@dlakelan
Ok, yes, I'm into this.
@artemis
Wouldn't that be a great book? Such a good way to bring those ideas to people. And there are plenty of people who feel more authentic and loving towards their dogs compared to their broken relationships with humanity. Empathy for dogs is way easier for people, because it is "safer"
@artemis
And once you learn to interact with dogs while accepting their agency and authentically caring for them, its so much easier to imagine how that would work for a partner or a child or your friends or coworkers etc.
@dlakelan @artemis I'd take recommendations on explicitly anarchist parenting strategies, too.

@lizzard @dlakelan @artemis

Disclaimer: I am a former child but have none of my own.

If you can't explain a rule, the rule doesn't need to exist.

My mom explained rules to me as choices with consequences.

Staying up late means more stress tomorrow

@CorvidCrone @dlakelan @artemis check: doing that already, feels natural. How else?!
@lizzard
i dont have any book recommendations or anything, but a few things ive done. if my kids want something I have always encouraged them to negotiate about it. say what they want, why they want it etc. Also when I want them to do something I usually make it about participation in cooperative family dynamics, not a "rule". so, if I want them to unload dishwasher its so that I can load the dishwasher and then run it before its too late to use the dishes for dinner
@artemis
@lizzard
I take them to help do shopping and things, and teach them about how to shop for cost effective things, budgeting, and making tradeoffs between different options. They are almost 15 and 16 now. they have access to a bank account and a debit card, they sometimes use it to do stuff for the family and get paid back. They have never had strict bedtimes or things but they learn to make conscious decisions about what's wisein terms of staying up and being tired later etc.
@artemis
@lizzard
When I encourage them to consider the way social things affect them I make it explicit where I dont agree with systems but still think those systems could harm them... grades, rules about behavior at school, laws to control children, etc... i tell them that even if I dont agree with those things sometimes they may be better off being aware of them and choosing to go along with them, and other times they may choose to break those rules.
@artemis

@dlakelan @artemis

The difference is that you're raising a dog, not training them. Same with kids. You have to raise them as independent creatures capable of making positive choices on their own.

I like the idea, but I think "Raising Dogs" is a better phrase than dog training.

@CorvidCrone
You gotta meet people where they are though. when they BUY the book they'll be looking for dog training, after they read the book, they'll think of it differently.
@artemis

@dlakelan
Yes! When I got my dog, I started looking up how to train her, & I was pretty sickened by the Cesar Milan style stuff. I was thinking "I'm getting this dog for companionship, not to have something I can control!"

Fortunately, yeah, there are alternative approaches.

@artemis

I honestly think that going through all that dog training literature paved the way to me identifying as Anarchist. along with some very useful posts by @HeavenlyPossum