Anja Kreysing#purge update / #unplugbigdata as Apple recently came up with the subscription-stuff AND killing my (pre-subs)Final Cut & Motion after a correct migration from another Mac, I am so done with that company. I am replacing every possible piece of Apple-Software, preferred with FOSS apps. Unfortunately there is no reliable Open Source DAW / Video Editor / Main-Stage like VST Host which complies to my needs. I'll try to squeeze something out of CARLA. Any experiences with kx.studio CARLA out there?
Philipp von Neumann@anja i really recommend Reaper. there is no better DAW out there, honestly. i also hear good stuff off kdenlive as video editor
AccordionBruce@PvN @anja
I’ve seen people use #Reaper for video
But it wasn’t built for that, and I’m not sure it’s going to be the best for the job
Not sure what might be better
Not my area
I tried to do a simple video project with it, and it was hard
But I’m not an expert Reaper user, or video producer at all. So other may do better
@PvN guess what I just installed ;-) Reaper should replace Logic / give some fresh inspiration. (not FOSS but no #bigdata) My main DAW is since a long time Ableton Live and I will keep it as long as possible. I am actually checking KDENlive, too - it looks promising but not as developed as I need. Actually I work for Da Vinci Resolve, looks very promising. I guess if I buy it finally, they'll switch into subscription mode, too 
@anja but please don't expect that reaper comes bundled with a lot of fancy VSTs. it comes with some plugins, but their GUI looks like not very developed. the strength of reaper is under the hood: fully customizable, scripting capabilities and super flexible multichannel tracks and routing, which is the main reason i use reaper. this is not supported by the most DAWs and if you want to work in multichannel settings like ambisonics and stuff this is necessary.
*_jߍyrope@Philipp von Neumann - @Anja Kreysing Reaper is completely fine, besides it has a tendency to sound a bit glassy. And obviously there is no DAW on the planet, which sounds perfectly fine just using the built-in plugins. It's a matter of taste for one, but it always makes sense to look around for diversity and different approaches - sthg which one DAW alone can't have per se - anyways.
I am using Pro Tools, Reaper, Cubase/Nuendo regularly, and all of them are fine, for different reasons, and different work fields. Whereas Ableton/Bitwig sound worst, and only really supports a dj-clip/loop-based kind of music making, which doesn't fit to a lot of types of music, and Logic sounds, well let's say, buerocratic :)
Finalmente: Any of those DAWs can be worked with, if you know their drawbacks and are able to circumvent them. Just a matter of experience.
I am using Pro Tools, Reaper, Cubase/Nuendo regularly, and all of them are fine, for different reasons, and different work fields. Whereas Ableton/Bitwig sound worst, and only really supports a dj-clip/loop-based kind of music making, which doesn't fit to a lot of types of music, and Logic sounds, well let's say, buerocratic :)
Finalmente: Any of those DAWs can be worked with, if you know their drawbacks and are able to circumvent them. Just a matter of experience.
Philipp von Neumann (@[email protected])
103 Posts, 133 Following, 92 Followers · 💻 Laptop-Performer-Composer; 🔮 Synthesizing things of different kinds; 🔌 1/2 of stromspiesser concert series; 💽 1/2 of deterministic.jitter label; 📡 Currently at ICEM Folkwang UdK
@jrp Ableton used to sound worse, indeed. Over the years it Improved massively in sound quality and in workflow ergonomics. I won Live 1 once in 2001 😅 and I use it and track the development since then. For my purpose Live is actually the best DAW since uhhhm Version 10 / 11. Sound quality increased dramatically around these releases. Btw. I rarely use the session mode, but do seriously composing in the arranger mode. But as you do - I like to have alternatives on the hard drive, too. 🙃
Herr Irrtum! 🔊@anja @[email protected]
As Ableton doesn't offer a Linux version, the best next thing would be Bitwig from my point of view.
Dunno about the audio quality Jayrope mentioned. I guess A) I do such Lofi stuff, I didn't notice but also B) I have no clue about the usage concept.
Regarding that, for an Ableton fan Bitwig may be a disappointment at first, as it is NOT the same (doesn't mean it hasn't all/most of the features).
However workflow wise it surly comes closer to Ableton than the mentioned Reaper.
Also I'd say Bitwig is seriously more than just arranging DJ Clips ;) it has mighty midi/seq features. Yes I know from certain screen casts I've watched in despair trying to understand how it all works (I didn't get it - I'm just a tracker workflow guy, can't help it).
As Ableton doesn't offer a Linux version, the best next thing would be Bitwig from my point of view.
Dunno about the audio quality Jayrope mentioned. I guess A) I do such Lofi stuff, I didn't notice but also B) I have no clue about the usage concept.
Regarding that, for an Ableton fan Bitwig may be a disappointment at first, as it is NOT the same (doesn't mean it hasn't all/most of the features).
However workflow wise it surly comes closer to Ableton than the mentioned Reaper.
Also I'd say Bitwig is seriously more than just arranging DJ Clips ;) it has mighty midi/seq features. Yes I know from certain screen casts I've watched in despair trying to understand how it all works (I didn't get it - I'm just a tracker workflow guy, can't help it).
@herr_irrtum @jrp BitWig is on my testlist, too. Bought the smallest edition on Black Friday once. But it doesen‘t catch me yet, bulky GUI and I don‘t get the praised intuitive Workflow so far. 😂 But right, as AbletonLive, BitWig is really not just a DJ-Tool! As I am in no real hurry, I hope they port once Ableton Live to Linux. Meanwhile I’ll dig into Reaper and give BitWig a third try. Most important: I‘ll try to get CARLA to work for my cyber-accordion. Goal: do this all before Armageddon 😂😂😂
Morten Mosgaard@herr_irrtum @anja @jrp I did the Mac OS/Ableton to Linux/Bitwig move halv a year ago, and haven't reconsidered once.
The only real difference for me, is audio editing when working with found sounds, where the workflow of Bitwig is far from the way I used to work with Abletons audio event tools for pitching/streching etc...
But when it comes to mixing Bitwig is far superior, and a pleasure to mix in. I would normally use Studio One for that.
But it's true you need additional plugins!
@Morten Mosgaard What do you use for a sampler on Linux?
@jrp right now I use the build in sampler of Bitwig.
I'm used to using the build in samplers of Studio One or Ableton, so it's not that big a difference. I haven't really gotten used to all the modulation options in Bitwig yet, which gives a lot of opportunities, if I ever get arround to study that, it could be a really good solution.
My fallback samplers are the Reason Rack Effects which I have running in Yabridge.
@Morten Mosgaard Does any of those samplers support Kontakt library (or just patch) import?
@jrp I'm not sure you can open Kontakt librarys directly, but you should be able to use Convert With Moss: https://www.mossgrabers.de/Software/ConvertWithMoss/ConvertWithMoss.html
I actually have Kontakt running through Yabridge, I just rarely uses it.
Thanks a lot for your insight, Morten!
That makes me feel optimistic! 🤩
Do you video-editing, too?
@anja you're welcome, always happy to share my experiences transitioning to Linux (or music in general).
I haven't had the need for video-editing yet, so my knowledge for that is very limited.
I have installed Kdenlive, as it's been mentioned a lot, and I have tested OBS for live recordings.
@mosgaard thanks again! As I can't' find it actually - on which Linux Distro are you? (I have experience with Linux MInt Debian Edition and MX Linux, also Debian based)
@anja I'm on CachyOS using Gnome as my desktop environment.
I have made a guide of how I set up my system for music prodution: https://mortenmosgaard.dk/how-i-setup-cachy-os-arch-linux-for-music-production/
CachyOS has a really good repository, where you'll be able to find a lot of the apps you'll need. When you enter the distro the first time, you'll also be greeted by a promt, which will help you install the most basic apps, where Bitwig and Kdenlive is just one click away.
How I setup Cachy OS (Arch Linux) for Music Production
People following this blog will know that I have spent quite some time figuring out which Linux distribution I should use for music production. I chose CachyOS for the performance, it was simply faster on my laptop, and it turned out it’s a distro that works really well for me. It’s important to note that…
@mosgaard whow, thanks a lot! You can get Bitwig out of the CachyOS Repo? => but you have to register then, yes? 😄 And: which are the specs of your computer? (I have actually a Lenovo P14 2nd generation with 32 GB RAM from 2001 on MX Linux and a MacBook Pro from 2015 with 16 GB RAM on LMDE ...
@anja I have a refurbished ThinkPad P15s Gen 1 with 32 GB of Ram and 2 GB NVIDIA graphics card.
You can install Bitwig (or Reaper) in many different ways on Linux. If you are on an Arch distro like CachyOS, the most common is to use the repositories. But you can also use Flatbak, .deb, AppImages or something else.
My experience is that the repo's works the best, since the dependencies of each program is specified for the distro.
@anja and yes, you have to have a BItwig license to use it.
@Morten Mosgaard Morten, while we're at it: What's a good backup solution for Linux in general? I am thinking Time Machine-style, connect external harddisk and have backups run in background automatically. @Anja Kreysing
@jrp I use kDrive from infomaniak to keep an online backup, which I use so I can access my files from other units.
I don't have an automated backup on an external harddrive, but I know lot's of people do.
@mosgaard SO GREAT, thanks for your infos - your's is a very similar Laptop to mine. I forgot to mention - my P14 is also refurbished and it has a 4GB NVIDIA T500 graphics card. And a Danish keyboard layout 🙃 I just found out, that I can install Bitwig from my MX Linux repo, too! So great! Will order now my crossgrade offer from Thomann and then happy Eastern 🐰 😉 BEST! Anja
@anja I got a crossgrade too, it was a very cheap DAW.
Reaper is super solid also (I could see other people mention it), and it has an active forum with a lot of Linux users, which is also great.
Have you seen Millisecond?
https://flathub.org/en/apps/io.github.gaheldev.Millisecond
It might be in your repo too.
@mosgaard ah thanks for the hint to millisecond! It's just installed it. So great to learn from you, that our Lenovo's are still a good run for audio with Linux! Will have a bit more time to konfigure and try out in the upcoming week. I am very curious how I get along with Bitwig / audio on Linux! (so far I used Linux to learn about and for some basics like iNet research ...)
@anja you're welcome. I have been really impressed at how well it is functioning.
I should mention that Windows plugin can work sometimes, but it's not as stable, as getting native Linux plugins. Luckily there is plenty to choose from: https://linuxdaw.org/
I have been very focused on getting a low latency, and share some thoughts about that in this blog post, where I also mention a lot of the plugins I use: https://mortenmosgaard.dk/using-software-monitoring-with-low-latency-on-linux/
@PvN no worry, I have my VST armada together, some favs for decades now. Can use them in any DAW. @ multichannel capabilities of reaper: great, good to know!
@anja i also use Da Vinci Resolve. But i guess it is a open secret, that the strategy behind offering a such professional and fully developed video editor for free is to make some market share and then make it also pay-for-rent.
@anja i don't expect that davinci resolve will stay free for much longer time.
@anja but now i notice you mentioned it already, haha!
@PvN yes that's the strategy - I hope that the developing of FOSS applications like eg KDENlive will increase dramatically in the next years. A developer from a dutch company told me that they expect a lot happening in the upcoming 2-3 years because so many people are fed up with the current situation. I hope so... Of course I would pay for really good working open source, too.