cobratbq - cranky-by-designApr 1

#group #psychology #independence #entity #corruption I wonder if there is some scientific study that can determine the closedness of a group and dynamic and behavior of that group as a whole to determine whether it behaves as an (intelligent) life-form with intelligence and purpose. Does it have all the necessary freedoms and capabilities and sufficiently few restrictions? Are there known rules to prevent it from happening?

Then analyze a country's acting #political configuration.

Show threadcobratbq - cranky-by-designApr 1

If an acting political system has all the hallmarks of a life-form, one would think that's a sign that a country's political system is broken. That is, hidden agendas, political activity to its own benefit, losing sight and/or understanding of it's country's civilians.

Maybe our first Artificial General Intelligence isn't computational, but a runaway acting political system. (With extension to a political class to ensure closedness.)

Show threadcobratbq - cranky-by-designApr 1
Just thinking out loud here.
Show threadcobratbq - cranky-by-designApr 1

This could even happen without (full) awareness by its participants. If they have this common understanding of an envisioned goal that lost its relevance in relation to it's country's general public, you have an overarching entity with an independent purpose simply by misalignment with general population. I.e. an independent life-form with politicians just (unwitting) cogs inside.

There would need to preseve this independent life-form's common "understanding" and "knowledge" and "wisdom".

Show threadcobratbq - cranky-by-designApr 1
There could be sentience without there being full-blown rational strategic planning. If it has a primitive notion of purpose and goal, it would act independently.
Show threadcobratbq - cranky-by-designApr 1
Does an life-form have to exhibit higher intelligence if it is in a "slumbering" state, i.e. acting political configuration that we do not address as a life-form as a whole? What if we don't recognize it as such because we were all unaware, i.e. including the life-form. We see politics making awkward moves on occasion. Possibly because it's acting on a rather vague notion of purpose, even if all know it's already independent and might no longer be aligned with and represent its population.
Show threadcobratbq - cranky-by-designApr 1

Humans emerge from simple ("dumb") biological processes and interactions (even whole bacteria and viruses) that aren't aware of their full over-arching capability.

A sufficiently "exercised" closed political system might exhibit similar life-form-like emergent behavior.

Show threadcobratbq - cranky-by-designApr 1

In USA, the well-known political class and revolving door into industry might have dissolved most of the political restrictions while preserving (maintaining a sufficiently) closed system as to allow it to exhibit behavior of an emergent independent #biological life-form and maintain and preserve a certain course or trajectory.

#biology

Show threadcobratbq - cranky-by-designApr 1
Okay, calling it AGI is overreaching. AG"I", Artificial General "Intelligence". It's still politics.
Show threadcobratbq - cranky-by-designApr 1
Intelligence agencies and secrecy act as white blood cells fighting off foreign threats: yes, foreign to the independent life-form, i.e. non-conforming, conflicting ideas.
Show threadcobratbq - cranky-by-design
I guess you'd need a sufficient amount of cogs to preserve momentum, so individual independent intelligence would ultimately be a factor of noise and/or disruption.
Apr 1 at 10:41amTusky
Show threadcobratbq - cranky-by-designApr 1
Thing is, I'd argue that symptoms of such an emergent independent behavior would imply the political system has failed. Note: the system failed. In general, every individual politician may have acted on good faith/intentions.
Show threadcobratbq - cranky-by-designApr 1
Of course, such potential exists in any group, but not the reach and nurturing capacity of the environment ("nest") that is such a political system.
Show threadcobratbq - cranky-by-designApr 1

A form of independence would arise from preserved and/or maintained momentum and trajectory, purpose and goals, latency and slowness to respond, misalignment and deprioritized civilian goals and civilian-centric values and principles, exagerated and/or (badly) anticipated events and responses, preservation and (over)prioritization of its own (nurturing) resources, etc.

It needs to get sufficiently misaligned and out of sync to "break free".

Show threadcobratbq - cranky-by-designApr 1

It needs preserve momentum, maintain some trajectory, be sufficiently misaligned or out of sync, and it would break free.

But that would just be a runaway process. That's not enough for independence. But that's where the other aspects —mentioned in previous post— come in.

Show threadcobratbq - cranky-by-designApr 1
Maybe #science needs to identify whether political systems provide all necessary properties of nurturing and carrying capacity and capability to maintain a sufficiently closed system to identify whether a political system has the carrying capacity for such a life-form.
Show threadcobratbq - cranky-by-designApr 1
Disclaimer: this is a thought process of a thought experiment manifested and verbalized "on-the-fly", from a biological perspective with analogies to and similarities in politics.
Show threadcobratbq - cranky-by-designApr 1

Is there such a notion as "relative independence" where some need exists but the environment has overabundance or overcapacity s.t. any number of producers may drop out without risk, and/or an over-all balance is maintained as to ensure the number does not drop to zero?

This independent life-form may ultimately cannibalize resources from its environment in a crisis, because it is misaligned.