Dr. Maddkap, WerepsychologistI’m rewatching old Star Trek episodes to see which ones pass the B’kdel Test:
(1) Two named Klingons
(2) Talking to each other
(3) About something other than honor
(1) Two named Klingons
(2) Talking to each other
(3) About something other than honor
Axomamma, Antifa from birth@drmaddkap I've been listening to the audiobook of "The Expanse." It's absolutely rotten with misogyny and fails the Bechdel test so thoroughly, I'm astonished that it was made into a TV series - much less twice! Whoever gave it the green light hates women and never matured past the fifth grade. It's shocking that even in a past as remote as 2012-2017, this book series was published. No surprise at all that it won a Hugo, an award that should warn off any intelligent person.
Cat C-B@Axomamma @drmaddkap well, _this_ feminist finds that to be a particularly hot take, but thank you for that.
The women in The Expanse are fully realized, fearless, and three dimensional, and some—notably Bobbie the Martian Marine and Naomi, who winds up leading the entire resistance movement—are among the most memorable women in fiction.
Yeah, they pass the Bechdel test, but that’s almost beside the point, given the thematic critiques of racism & sexism.
🙄
@megmuttonhead Are you kidding? The whole thing with Naomi? Where Holden will simply not leave her alone? Doesn't get that she's not interested and tries to relentlessly get her to change her mind simply by whining in her direction? And let's talk about Miller's "love interest" - Julie Mao, "the poor little rich girl" - who is consistently referred to in the most disrespectful and demeaning way. If those are "fully realized, fearless and three dimensional women" ... jesusfuckingchrist.
@Axomamma Yes, Holden begins the series as—to put it bluntly—an asshole. Not only Naomi’s response to him but the ENTIRE SERIES is about a privileged white guy—Holden—fucking up, because he’s arrogant and clueless—and LEARNING BETTER.
Like, it’s not even subtle.
In the books. Which is one reason that, despite the excellent work of the actors, the TV show was so disappointing. (Of course a major TV show had to lose that part of the story. Alas.)
klegdixalHave to read the Expanse books at some point.
I really enjoyed the first 3 seasons of TV series with a few caveats – Holden's white saviour attitude becomes a running joke at about the third time he does it.
Naomi is hopelessly miscast.
My favourite character of the show – Drummer – is I believe a composite of several characters from the books.
@klegdixal and Drummer is indeed an amalgamation of at least two characters. Still kinda awesome, but I miss the originals.
I also was saddened by the changes to Avasarala’s character—and I really wish the TV show hadn’t villainized her so effectively. Not that her hands are clean in the books, but villainizing women in leadership is such a TV ploy. She’s far more morally complex in the books.
And she gets to be the one who first skewers Holden’s white saviorism, which is fun. 🙂
@megmuttonhead at which point Avasarala gets villainized? I gave up with the show after the 4th season. Up to that point she's a realpolitik kind of ruthless pragmatic but that doesn't equal villainy for me.
@klegdixal it’s the way she’s introduced to us in the TV show—if memory serves, which it may not—as she tortures a Belter captive. It’s a horrifying scene, and while it is not inconsistent with Avasarala’s realpolitik, by hitting us with it before we have any other real context for her character, it effectively villainizes her.
It’s a great performance by Shohreh Aghdashloo, but also pretty typical of how pop culture defines older women with power: evil queens and wicked fairies.
@megmuttonhead i think it was indeed her introduction. Didn't villainize her for me for the rest of the series.
Mind you in the GoT Ned Stark is introduced summarily executing a man.
Mind you in the GoT Ned Stark is introduced summarily executing a man.
@klegdixal true. Though in Stark’s case, they make sure to show us the ethics behind that moment (at least in the books—my memory of the show is less precise).
Introducing Avasarala being brutal wasn’t alloyed that same way. And while it did serve to keep us from sentimentalizing her as a sweet little old lady and to show the grittiness of the politics, I think it also comforted those whose misogyny always shows powerful women as monsters—à la Hillary’s treatment by the press.