Mastodawn

Dana das Grau 🧙🏻🧝‍♂️2d ago

SellaTheChemist

I’ll be talking about the very serious helium shortage that is looming (actually, it’s already upon us) and risks crippling semiconductor chip production and diagnostic instruments like MRI scanners, not to mention low temperature science.. It’s maddening because we’ve known that helium is very limited but it’s cheap so no one recovers it. It’ll be on BBC World Service Newshour around 13:45 BST.
#elements #chemistry #economics #profligacy

F4GRX SÃ©bastien 2d ago

@sellathechemist the CEA was recovering spent helium in their plants at Grenoble in the Alps, in 2004. Why was this not done more globally?

SellaTheChemist 2d ago

@f4grx it’s done but patchily. I suspect the price “doesn’t justify it”.

Colin the Mathmo 2d ago

@sellathechemist I may have missed it ... doing other things, recording the last 10 minutes, but I may have missed it.

I'm aware of the problem and it quietly makes me very angry every time I think of it.

Nothing I can do ... I try not to let it upset me.

Colin the Mathmo 2d ago

@sellathechemist Yeah ... reviewed the recording and I missed it.

8-(

Oh well ...

Martin Whitworth 2d ago

@ColinTheMathmo @sellathechemist It’s on BBC Sounds. I just listened. I know how important helium is, but didn’t know about this crisis. Thank you Andrea for enlightening me.

@Martin_Whitworth Thanks for this, I'm listening now - abou t38 minutes in to https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w172zssn5g0b00f

Newshour - Talks under way in Pakistan to end Middle East war - BBC Sounds

Efforts continue to establish diplomatic channels to end the war in the Middle East

BBC

SellaTheChemist 1d ago

@Martin_Whitworth @ColinTheMathmo I cannot tell you the pressure of trying to say everything you can about helium in the right order in under two minutes… live.

Colin the Mathmo 1d ago

@sellathechemist Absolutely it's a challenge. I remember "preparing" (thinking hard in advance) for television, expecting it to be 20 minutes of recording, then to be edited down to 2 minutes, only then to discover it was:

(a) Live, and

(b) 30 minutes.

So the stress is real ... I've experienced similar.

CC: @Martin_Whitworth

SellaTheChemist 1d ago

@ColinTheMathmo @Martin_Whitworth No safety net. Even with a few words scribbled onto a scrap of paper while waiting for the questions the tension of trying to make sure you line up the thoughts in the right order is substantial.
One thing that makes it easier is knowing the presenter and being in the studio – you can see if they are following you, and you can sense if they need you to shut up.

SellaTheChemist 1d ago

@ColinTheMathmo @Martin_Whitworth Year ago a presenter – Quentin Cooper - held up his fingers to count me down to the second at the end of the segment. I still can't figure out how I managed to thread that needle.

Colin the Mathmo 1d ago

@sellathechemist The "no safety net" is something I recognise ...

I'm going to have to go and find it now and listen! Very well done in surviving the experience ...

(Oh, and yes, having a good presenter makes a huge difference, especially if you end up having a genuine connection with them)

CC: @Martin_Whitworth

SellaTheChemist 1d ago

@ColinTheMathmo @Martin_Whitworth Yes - with "prerecs" you prepare all this stuff and most of it is dropped along the way. It seems sad, but I've always felt that it's their gig after all and for them to make the judgement; they invariably cut things to make you sound/look good.
One thing about a lot of podcasts is the lack of editing but makes for some seriously "flabby" listening. Cut to the chase people! I am in total awe of the BBC Radio producers I've had the joy of working with.

Colin the Mathmo 1d ago

@sellathechemist Now listened ... well done.

In case you're interested, I downloaded it and trimmed to just your part. Let me know if you'd like a copy.

CC: @Martin_Whitworth

SellaTheChemist 20h ago

@ColinTheMathmo @Martin_Whitworth I'm not sure I can bear to listen to myself but I might learn something (if that makes sense).

Colin the Mathmo 20h ago

@sellathechemist If you DM me your email I'll send it over.

CC: @Martin_Whitworth

John Faithfull 🌍🇪🇺🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🧡✊🏻✊🏿2d ago

@sellathechemist ... Indeed! The US particularly has a recent history of stupid decisions about helium - eg Helium Privatization Act of 1996, and most of their actions since... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Helium_Reserve

National Helium Reserve - Wikipedia

SellaTheChemist 2d ago

@FaithfullJohn Yup. I mentioned that too. There are parallels with Margaret Thatcher doing away with Harold Wilson’s BNOC a fire sale that funded her battles with the unions. Meanwhile Norway has a gigantic sovereign wealth fund and the UK has…..

@sellathechemist

In 2023 a large source of helium was found in Babbitt Minnesota. I’m not sure how the extraction process is going but it should help.

SellaTheChemist 2d ago

@HopelessDemigod There have also been big funds in Tanzania. But these things take time and money. The US had a strategic reserve and 90% of the world’s supply. But they decided to privatise it -someone made a quick buck and now we have no buffer when a mad orange king overturns things.

@sellathechemist

Why am I not surprised. Sigh

The Turtle 2d ago

@sellathechemist all most people will hear is that the mylar balloons for their fucking brat's birthday party will cost a lot more. Fuck mylar balloons.

Pozorvlak 2d ago

@the_turtle @sellathechemist I once found one on a glacier in the Kyrgyz Tien Shan, at the foot of a mountain I'm pretty sure nobody had climbed before me. As you say, fuck mylar balloons.

@sellathechemist I wonder how much Helium is wasted because people want to talk funny.

@Ichinin 🏆 best shitpost of the day award for you 🤣

SellaTheChemist 2d ago

@Ichinin Less than one might think. A lot of liquid helium trundles around on motorways between hospitals and factories. Seriously big volumes are used for cryogenics, inert gas, leak detection and even some welding….

Michelle Hughes 2d ago

@sellathechemist @Ichinin

Could welding be switched over to neon or argon? My understanding was it didn't need to be cold, just inert.

SellaTheChemist 1d ago

@MegaMichelle @Ichinin One of the big advantages of helium is its low molecular mass. It means that the atoms move extremely fast and that makes helium an exceptionally good conductor of heat - so for some applications it's hard to replace. Hydrogen is even more thermally conductive, but has <ahem> other drawbacks.
As to neon, the destruction by the Russians of the great steelworks in Ukraine included the air liquefaction plants. So other noble gases - neon, krypton, xenon are also pinched.

SellaTheChemist 1d ago

@MegaMichelle @Ichinin PS I wasn't clear earlier. The air liquefaction plants in Mariupol' were there to feed oxygen into the steel smelters - the noble gases were therefore an added bonus from the process that increased the value of the process.

Albert Cardona 2d ago

@sellathechemist

“Limited but cheap”, one wonders how we got here.

SellaTheChemist 20h ago

@albertcardona As a species, we are pretty lousy at pricing in the long run, even when the dice are very heavily loaded. And we often build political structures that amplify that. By contrast we're very good at over-reacting to short term noise. What a flaw in our architecture, eh?

Albert Cardona 18h ago

@sellathechemist

Possibly a fatal flaw. After all, hominid species have an average span of 400,000 years, if I remember correctly.

jeremiah 2d ago

@sellathechemist Outside of the UK, do you know if there will be a link?

John Griffith 2d ago

@sellathechemist

This is a link to a different discussion on the same topic

https://pca.st/episode/558d7abf-c938-45f7-b14a-a5245bb64da4

Now There's a Helium Shortage and It Affects More Than Balloons

Ripple effects from the war in Iran and the closure of the Strait of Hormuz continue to widen. There's yet another brewing shortage, this time in helium. While most people associate helium with…

@sellathechemist low Helium consumption instruments exist:
https://www.iceoxford.com/

ICEoxford - Innovative Cryogenic Engineering

High Performance Cryogenic Systems:Tailored to meet your exact requirements. ICEoxford offers wet and dry cryogenic systems for a wide range of scientific applications from Quantum Computing to Neutron Scattering. At the heart of our success is a commitment to find solutions for the cryogenic community. Delivering high quality products, outstanding customer support with excellent levels of personal service from our expert technical staff.

SellaTheChemist 2d ago

@hicksy2 Yes. But MRI is diffferent and existing kit needs helium top ups

SellaTheChemist 2d ago

@hicksy2 Displex (Gifford-McMahom) chillers are sealed but still need some.