James R Kirk"I'm not against representation, but..." folks be like
WhiteOakBayouIs the last one where they go back in time and work at a newspaper?
Nope they’re just hanging at Quark’s
VicinusJust watched it yesterday: Season 6 Episode 13 - Far Beyond the Stars
AutonomousRacism they took head on more, but gender/sexuality they had to be more creative so as to keep berman and the execs from figuring it out.
Gender and sexuality have made leaps and bounds since then and episodes that deal with it similarly now are more likely to be broadcast. It’s the same spirit as before, just catching up with the times.
And the one time they finally gave a single throwaway line to the fact that enbys exist, quote-unquote “progressives” suddenly clutch their pearls over it.
Yeah this shit irritates me in part because I feel like Discovery has lazy writing, but it’s hard to make those criticisms of it because as soon as you start people dismiss you as a shitlord because they assume you think it’s that shit.
There are a lot of people out there who are “totally ok with the gays” but put such a high bar on what constitutes acceptable representation that it starts to feel like bigotry by omission.
Yeah, I agree. That’s the thing — I have no problem with whatever “woke” stuff people are complaining about. My complaints are things like “this is the first time anyone in Star Trek (outside of time travel) mentioned inches.”
USSBurritoTruckMy complaints are things like “this is the first time anyone in Star Trek (outside of time travel) mentioned inches.”
Why are you blaming Disco for something that TNG did?
i don’t think that ever happened
Agreed with the reaction to criticisms. My biggest problem with Discovery is the fact that, during the last two seasons especially, you’d frequently have some insanely huge event taking place that also has a ticking clock and the crew will just stop trying to solve the event so they can have a little talk about their feelings.
I have no problem with Star Trek talking about people’s feelings. I have no problem with Burnham’s arc effectively being about her seeing the value of her emotions (after having been raised by Vulcans). I have no problem with a Star Trek show having scenes of therapy or whatnot. I have huge problems with these things happening IN THE MIDDLE OF A TICKING CLOCK GALAXY WIDE CRISIS. You’re supposed to be professionals. Get it together, finish the mission, then deal with all of this in debrief!
But some might read this and think that I’m “hur dur, Michael Burnham is crying all the time.” Nope.
If they saw it before they were 14, it’s nuanced, insightful, even challenging. If they saw it after they were 14, it’s shallow insincere pandering.
Honestly sums it up. /r/im35andthisispandering
SatyrSack
StillPaisleyCatI’m on a Voyager rewatch with one of our GenZ kids.
It wasn’t long before we hit the episode with Chakotay coaching Janeway to find her spirit animal guide — I had to stop to explain why I was finding it uncomfortable.
They’ve seen the whole series multiple times since middle school but hadn’t known about the entire fake ‘Indigenous consultant’ fiasco with Voyager.
Conceptually, I appreciate the intention to have an authentic but non specific Indigenous character and hiring a consultant for that. That’s definitely intentional representation.
I often wonder if the consultant pushed the EPs away from casting Canadian actor Tom Jackson in the role of Chakotay simply because Jackson, who is authentically Indigenous (Cree mother, raised on-reserve in Saskatchewan) would have likely outed the consultant as a fraud very quickly.
Tom Jackson had played the role of Lakanta in the TNG 7th season Wesley-focused episode ‘Journey’s End.’ He was at the time, already in a senior main cast role in the groundbreaking CBC show North of 60 and had demonstrated his ability work in an ensemble with strong women characters.
By all accounts, Jackson was in very serious consideration for the role of Chakotay. Beltran was a surprising choice by contrast. While Latin American Indigenous descent is part of his heritage, there were sincere questions raised about why the showrunners had chosen not to cast an actor who was raised and connected to his Inidgenous identity.
I didn’t know there was someone lined up before Beltran. Can you imagine the drama if the actor was put into a position to be like “Uhh, guys I’m not sure what’s going on but this script is total bs”
I’m not sure ‘lined up’ is quite right.
It’s more that Tom Jackson was considered the likely choice and was known to be under final consideration, but there were always others being tested for the role.
But it would have been a huge conflict, even in the 90s.
Jackson would have been leaving a groundbreaking Indigenous-focused show that laid the ground for authentic representation and storytelling to join the cast of Voyager. There is no likelihood he would have avoided questioning the consultant’s credibility.
I’m wondering if Jackson raised some soft concerns in the auditions such that Paramount decided they didn’t want to risk frictions, not realizing that their contract advisor was the issue.
The most tasteful way I could include a non white human character directly referring to their non white culture as being a part of their identity while also tiptoeing around the fact that the specific culture being represented was… not real