Mastodawn

blarth 1d ago

As do .ml and hexbear.

Excuse me for not seeing a credible difference between genocidal warmonger (blue) and genocidal warmonger (red)

Excuse me for not seeing a credible difference between genocidal warmonger (blue) and genocidal warmonger (red)

Q. E. D.

YappyMonotheist 1d ago

Where’s the lie though

InternetCitizen2

I’ve written before on electoralism. There are a few issues with @[email protected] point of view here.

To be clear I am not saying that elections are the only thing that matter or the only thing that we should be doing; just that it is foolish to be ignoring them. Ideally, we should be having our own party, but in places where that is not possible, we should participate in primaries and vote as left as possible. Diva’s dismissiveness here is effectively saying we should step out of the way and let fascists have their way. Harm reduction is still important.

I will also just tag a comment here that voting is still a form of organizing and building credibility. If you have a movement and can persuade its members to vote then said members can also be persuaded to protest or strike. In the west voting carries little personal harm, so if people find that too tall then one can be sure that any higher order resistance might not happen.

At a minimum we should all be voting left in primaries to have statistics that there is in fact a left leaning populace that is being ignored. Protest votes and spoiled ballots are also good moves to do.

Diva is not wrong that the dems are also capitalists, but their apathy is discouraging leftist unity and changes to our material conditions.

Diva’s dismissiveness here is effectively saying we should step out of the way and let fascists have their way.

This is a false binary. I criticize democrat politicians for arming a genocide, that’s me demanding better from them because their actions on that front cost them the election and tens of thousands of people their lives.

Harm reduction is still important

Harm reduction for whom? did it include Palestinians getting bombed with US weapons? any of other victims of US foreign policy? Trump couldn’t operate with impunity as he is if the democrats didn’t set him up for it.

voting is still a form of organizing and building credibility

No it fucking isn’t. Organizing is organizing. Be it building dual power, mutual aid networks, unions, affinity groups, whatever. Voting is the bare minimum civic participation. Conflating them is a diversionary tactic designed to make people think they’ve done something groundbreaking by filling in a ballot.

If you have a movement and can persuade its members to vote then said members can also be persuaded to protest or strike

completely backwards. Movements don’t start with voting and scale up to strikes. they start with material organizing and sometimes engage in electoral politics tactically (ideally with an actual workers party)

At a minimum we should all be voting left in primaries

Funny, did this in the 2024 ‘primaries’ with uncommitted votes; all warning signs were completely ignored. surely if we keep trying the same things will work out eventually.

their apathy is discouraging leftist unity

I’m not apathetic, I’m actually quite involved in irl organizing (actual organizing, not electoral). I’m just not particularly invested in the democratic party.

Harm reduction for whom

For many vulnerable people. Its good that you are unaffected by the election results, but please check your privilege.

Voting is the bare minimum civic participation.

A bare minimum that mls cannot be bothered to do. As such they have no credibility to doing higher level activity.

Funny, did this in the 2024 ‘primaries’ with uncommitt…

Are you aware that there have been elections before that? We should have been organized long before. J Edgar Hoover thanks you for your contributions. You are the leftist he would wish to see. Disorganized and unwilling to take actions.

I’m not apathetic, I’m actually quite involved in irl organizing (actual organizing, not electoral). I’m just not particularly invested in the democratic party.

Right, you cared so much you couldn’t spare an afternoon every two years? Maybe skip the shit posting a few days to get some of the time to do so. Not all of us are so privileged as to not care about the harm reduction at the least.

Its good that you are unaffected by the election results

I’m actually pretty fucking affected by them, I’m a trans woman and plenty fucking familiar with economic precarity. I’ve been having my prescriptions fucked with on and off ever since Trump got in office, my insurance even stopped covering pretty much every formulation of estrogen other than ones used by cis women

You’re lecturing me about privilege because you don’t like how I feel about your preferred party of genocide enablers.

A bare minimum that mls cannot be bothered to do.

I’ve voted in pretty much every fucking election on and off year in my adult life, plus I’m an anarchist.

J Edgar Hoover thanks you for your contributions

It’s rich accusing me of being a fed/useful idiot while identifying voting for the democratic party as the truly useful activity.

You couldn’t spare an afternoon every two years?

Once more, I’ve fucking voted every year for over two decades. I even vote in municipal elections, those happen on odd numbered years.

feel free to continue attacking straw targets though I guess.

It’s rich accusing me of being a fed/useful idiot while identifying voting for the democratic party as the truly useful activity.

Seems you didn’t read my opening statement:

It’s not like you’ve read anything I’ve said. You couldn’t even seem to register that I vote in these fucking elections routinely and still find the democrats disgusting.

I also did read and respond to that, you called me privileged without engaging with anything I said.

and still find the democrats disgusting.

And I never said you were wrong to do so. I am saying your bad attitude around voting is undermining our leftist movements by being needlessly divisive.

personally I find sending unlimited weapons to a genocide to be needlessly divisive.

feel free to continue trying to tone police my ‘bad attitude’ (criticizing democrats)

personally I find sending unlimited weapons to a genocide to be needlessly divisive.

And therefore we should ignore voting even more? The ml position here reads like abstinence; which is effectively to give up.

feel free to continue trying to tone police my ‘bad attitude’ (criticizing democrats)

Talk about a strawman. Like I said earlier. It would be ideal for us to have our own party. It would be great if mls like you would join us in support of it. Until then the progressive wing of US politics lives in the dem party and it would be helpful to our movement to help it grow as much as it can.

And since you care so much about strawmanning; don’t forget I did say voting is only one thing we should do. Not the only thing ;)

And therefore we should ignore voting even more? The ml position here reads like abstinence; which is effectively to give up.

Hey, I’m an anarchist, at least pretend you’re reading anything I’m saying. I vote plenty, you can’t seem to register that though because you’re stuck fighting ghosts.

It would be great if mls like you would join us in support of it. Until then the progressive wing of US politics lives in the dem party and it would be helpful to our movement to help it grow as much as it can.

“We should have our own party BUT actually let’s just be dem progressives forever”

Also I’m an anarchist, once more you seem incapable of processing anything I say.

And since you care so much about strawmanning; don’t forget I did say voting is only one thing we should do. Not the only thing ;)

You spend an entire thread accusing me of not voting and undermining leftism by criticizing dems and are now pretending that voting isn’t all you are advocating for? Talking out both sides of your mouth

Hey, I’m an anarchist, at least pretend you’re reading anything I’m saying. I vote plenty, you can’t seem to register that though because you’re stuck fighting ghosts.

And I am still asking you to make common cause with us to vote for short term goals. Do you want to quote were I said you should not want to ultimatly destroy the government?

“We should have our own party BUT actually let’s just be dem progressives forever”

Given how much push back I am getting from a fellow lefty like yourself to vote left we are going to be stuck as progressive dem for some time. Thanks for your contribution here.

now pretending that voting isn’t all you are advocating for?

I’ll refer you to my opening comment Ms. Strawman.

Given how much push back I am getting from a fellow lefty like yourself to vote left we are going to be stuck as progressive dem for some time.

Is your position that the reason we don’t have a workers party because people like me (marginalized trans anarchists) criticize the democrats online?

I vote plenty, democrats have won my state in presidential elections for my entire voting lifetime. You’re the one saying ‘someday we’ll have our own party’ as cover for demanding democratic party loyalty right now. You’re not building anything, you’re just defending existing power structures and blaming critics.

I vote plenty

That is great, and it would be helpful to us both if you also didn’t have an infectious attitude about elections that discourages others to show up. Its fine if you do not want to run or help in a campaign, but it would be helpful if you spoke to and helped fellow lefties show up to primaries and vote as left as possible.

If you still really hate it show up and spoil your ballot at a minimum. Elections are still a show of numbers and credibility. A revolutionary group that cannot commit to such a low stakes action is not credible for higher level organization and resistance.

I wasn’t aware I was infectious, you’re making me sound like I’m an influencer or like operating the yuri mind control machine. I’m just a girl on the internet.

Your position still sounds like you’re tone policing criticism of the genocidal warmongers who got us into this mess.

you’re making me sound like I’m an influencer

Everyone is to some degree. Leadership by example is powerful and the actions are you communicating is that you are not going to get everything so you are not going to even try. It creates a nagative feedback loop. Diva won’t vote as there is no leftist party. There is no leftist party because Diva won’t show for it. At scale this means we as a group are missing out on more organization and influence.

To be fair to you the communication is leadership by example is often unintentional. You may not have the intention to create this feedback loop or other influences, but that does not mean you are not doing so. This is true for everyone.

For someone who deeply cares about ending genocide you put too much effort into talking about why you won’t take a small action that could help. Would you roll a dice to stop it if the probability was 1:100 of stopping it? Note that not rolling also means a continue. Your attitude is that you would rather just let it continue. I suppose it is easy to have a purity test when you are not cold and hungry in a siege. In that sense you are not checking your privilege with your lack of urgency. And this is only one topic on the ballot.

are you incapable of registering that I do vote? How do you keep failing to read that across at this point a half dozen posts.

You are not actually engaging with anything I’m saying and just rattling off bullshit. pretty normal behavior from you lot, sadly.

are you incapable of registering that I do vote?

so why do you keep acting like I don’t then? You aren’t even internally consistent in that post, you say that it’s great that I vote, but then act like I don’t again in the second paragraph

You aren’t even internally consistent in that post, you say that it’s great that I vote, but then act like I don’t again in the second paragraph

You are going to have to clarify. I feel I have made my point.

you didn’t make any points, you just keep circling and accusing me of not voting lmao