BeepOptical illusion
VictorHold up. The US has over 100 guns per 100 people? đł So on average, everyone owns at least one gun?
Close, but the best estimates are there are 470 million guns in US civilian hands. With a population of 338 million, youâre looking at approximately 1.4 guns per person in this crazy land of free-dumb. đ
Most gun owners have more than one. If youâre a hunter, you might want to shoot different rounds for different game or seasons.
My state bans the use of rifles for deer hunting in most circumstances. In that example, youâd want 12ga for deer hunting, 20ga for duck, and 5.56 would be used for coyotes, boar, or groundhogs. And if you go boar hunting youâll want a sidearm (9mm or .45) because theyâll gore you if they get the chance.
So that totals 4 guns for a single person with decent reasoning. Plus, if you had kids and took them hunting, youâd want at least 1 more of each type.
And for people who live in non-rural areas, you might decide to concealed carry a 9mm for protection. But handguns arenât as ideal for home defense, so you might want a shotgun or 9mm carbine for that task, so thatâd be 2 guns for 1 person.
My jaw figuratively dropped when you suggested putting rifles and side arms in the hands of kids.
Gotta have an age limit on those things.
Iâm saying to hand rifles to toddlers, nor that the kids get unrestricted access to the guns. JFC itâs like youâre deliberately trying to misunderstand.
Where I live itâs normal for teens to go hunting alongside there parents, and when the guns arenât in use they are stored in the family gun safe that only the parents can get into.
These parents also teach their kids gun safety, and with exposure the kids know that the guns arenât toys to be played with. This shares similarities to how many European countriesâ drinking age of 16 removes the novelty and rebellion of drinking, generally preventing them from drinking to excess
I understood what you meant. No misunderstanding there. I do not think teens under 18 should be handling a lethal weapon. Matter fact it should be over 21. My opinion. đ¤ˇââď¸
I do not think teens under 18 should be handling a lethal weapon. Matter fact it should be over 21.
Cars are a lethal weapon, but theyâre allowed to drive on public roads under supervision before theyâre 16, and can drive without on private property. Kids under 18 are allowed access to cooking knives at whatever age, and should be taught how to cook before theyâre adults. Teaching kids safe firearm operation under supervision is useful. Not only that, sharing hobbies with parents help with communication and bonding, giving the kids a better support structure while growing up.
Your black-and-white mindset of infantilizing teens like theyâre completely incapable of handling anything before theyâre 18 is demeaning and ultimately damaging to society as a whole. It leads to adults whoâve never learned skills they need to survive on their own.
I personally think thereâs a distinction to be made between cooking knives, cars, and guns. I understand all that about cars and knives being lethal weapons too, but itâs about how easy it is to make a mistake, and HOW DETRIMENTAL it might be. And itâs about at which age you are capable of fully understanding every aspect of handling each thing, and the risks that come with it.
You could make the same argument about piloting an airplane. Statistically, being in an accident in an airplane is far, far less likely than being in one in a car. But if you are in a plane accident, the chances of it being lethal to everyone involved is far greater than accidents in a car, statistically, surely. Nobody freaking survives a plane crash. Sometimes everyone perishes even it if happens before takeoff. Thatâs why you donât see 18 year old pilots of passenger airplanes, let alone 16 year old pilots.
Knives are much easier to monitor and control by the supervising adult, so kids can learn handling them safely. Making a mistake is rarely lethal with a knife, especially since a lot of kidsâ knives arenât even very sharp.
My country does gun law pretty well, IMO:
Gun ownership in Sweden is regulated by Vapenlagen 1996:67 (literally, The Weapon Law), modified by weapon decree VapenfĂśrordningen 1996:70 and FAP 551-3 / RPSFS 2009:13. The police issue licenses to persons older than 18 years in good standing on the âneed to haveâ basis, which generally implies either hunting or sport shooting. Passing a hunting examination or membership in an approved sport shooting club for six months is required. Sport shooting licenses must be renewed every 5 years, whereas hunting licenses are valid for the lifetime of the holder. License-holders may lend a weapon to a person at least 15 years of age for supervised use.
This is exactly what I feel is appropriate. Youâre not allowed to have a driverâs license until youâre 18 either⌠đ¤ˇââď¸ And not allowed to purchase strong alcohol until 21, just like America. Should alcohol also be allowed to children perhaps? Like I said, itâs not about learning, itâs about being capable of determining risk and making judgement calls, etc.
I didnât say teenagers shouldnât be able to learn. But having their own guns is not an option IMO. They can borrow in very controlled circumstances.
I donât have a black-and-white mindset about it, just like you donât. But itâs good to have rules of thumb because society canât be run on a case-by-case basis. And thatâs what Iâll say about it.
I didnât say teenagers shouldnât be able to learn. But having their own guns is not an option IMO. They can borrow in very controlled circumstances.
Then why did you go after me for pointing out that some parents teach their kids how to hunt? Thatâs literally what youâre claiming to not be against.
And not allowed to purchase strong alcohol until 21, just like America.
No, not like in the US. Here, you canât get any alcohol under 21. Thatâs the source of the taboo. High school students love to get older siblings and crappy parents to supply them with way too much alcohol and regularly host giant parties where they drink to the point of passing out or vomiting, and often drive drunk afterwards.
Thankfully for me, my parents took the European route, and let me have a beer with dinner on occasion, and thatâs it. It also helps that I donât like loud crowded parties so I rarely attended and generally left after a few minutes.
Knives are much easier to monitor and control by the supervising adult
Not really. A student can just go buy a knife from the local store or steal one from the kitchen outside of meal prep. If they wanted to, they could acquire one and shank someone without their parents knowing. Meanwhile in the US, a teenâs main option for getting a gun trying to convince Uncle Cleatus to illegally sell them one, which he generally wonât do because thatâs a felony with a 10 year sentence.
But if you are in a plane accident, the chances of it being lethal to everyone involved is far greater than accidents in a car, statistically, surely. Nobody freaking survives a plane crash.
Your example doesnât fit very well. A plane crash will kill everyone, regardless if itâs deliberate or a mistake. And itâs very easy to mess up when piloting a plane.
A negligent discharge from a firearm is 1: not guaranteed to hit someone, 2: not guaranteed to kill someone, and 3: is going to be isolated to a single shot. You donât have guns spontaneously firing in all directions. Not only that, the 4 core rules of gun safety are very effective at protecting everyone in the general vicinity of a firearm, and they arenât difficult to teach and learn.
The main concern with minors having access to firearms is deliberate attempts at violence. I donât think I need to go into detail on why thatâs a larger problem for teens, but thatâs prevented by 1: keeping the guns in a safe that the kids/teens canât get in to, and 2: being good parents that communicate and support their kids.
Now Iâm not one to say âeveryone should have a gunâ because thatâd be fucking stupid. If you (or someone in your house) are depressed or youâre a shitty parent then you shouldnât have a gun because itâs just asking for trouble. But a lot of people build guns up in their head as some giant boogeyman that will go off on its own and murder everyone in the room like a rabid bear.
And donât get me started on a rant about the leftâs insistence on gun control and disarming themselves is contributing the the fascist takeover currently going on in the US.
Then why did you go after me for pointing out that some parents teach their kids how to hunt? Thatâs literally what youâre claiming to not be against.
I am neither âgoing after youâ (separate yourself from your argument, Iâm not attacking you), nor am I against teaching your children to hunt. What I wouldnât support would be kids carrying their own weapons like that. They should be handed a weapon when it comes time to pull the trigger perhaps, but not carry around their own loaded rifle or sidearm. Thatâs too dangerous, in the general sense, in my opinion.
So thatâs basically what I reacted to from the very beginning. So if you didnât mean that, this whole discussion has probably been moot.