Mastodawn

Aral Balkan 19h ago

RE: https://toot.cafe/@soapdog/116290204253136215

“So it failed age verification and locked me out of many features. Bear in mind, I am 45 years old. I have an Apple account for 25 years, the age of my personal account alone should already verify my age.

Credit cards are not documents. Many people don’t have them. Apple don’t provide any other way to verify your age because they are a stupid American company with American values in which you’re just as human as your credit score.

Age verification is a scam, but checking it with a credit card is even worse.”

@aral
If you're looking for a de-Googled #Android phone, I highly recommend GrapheneOS. I switched from using Google Android a few months ago as my daily driver and couldn't be happier.
I don't know about specifically banking applications, but I have to have several apps for work that rely on Google Services, and have had no issues with any of them.
On the note of switching to #linux beware that many distributions are implementing age verification as well through the reliance on systemd.
I have switched to Void Linux from Debian and Fedora, and am so far quite pleased with it. It is certainly a learning process, but I'm very satisfied with the OS.
@GrapheneOS
@VoidLinux

Jordan Maris 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 #NAFO 17h ago

@BuuBuu @aral @GrapheneOS @VoidLinux your understanding of what systemd is doing is totally flawed.

@jmaris @aral @GrapheneOS @VoidLinux
Can you elaborate on how? I'm by no means an expert and would appreciate any information you can share.
From my understanding, systemd is implementing the system for applications to request age ranges. While I understand this is not as intrusive as age verification in other systems being implemented, it seems to be laying the groundwork for it.
I have also come across other issues people have with systemd, would you mind sharing your stance on this? I have thus far been pleased in learning to use runit on Void Linux.

Jordan Maris 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 #NAFO 16h ago

@BuuBuu @aral @GrapheneOS @VoidLinux the patch literally adds a date of birth field to user data, that is all. It's not an API for age verification. In addition the information is set by the user.

@jmaris @BuuBuu @aral @GrapheneOS @VoidLinux There is no legitimate reason an OS needs to have a DOB field for user data.

It's a fundamental concept for Data Minimization

"Don't store any more information than you actually need"

If an application or other user-space extension has a need for a dob, it should be implemented there, not as part of the init daemon.

Jordan Maris 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 #NAFO 14h ago

@h3mmy @BuuBuu @aral @GrapheneOS @VoidLinux systemd is not just an init daemon at this point. And again, if you don't want to fill in the field, simply don't fill it in. Problem solved.

@jmaris @BuuBuu @aral @GrapheneOS @VoidLinux I feel like you're not hearing me. This is a design and process issue. I shouldn't have to opt-out of including PII. The OS should not require it unless there is a justifiable need. It's a change that impacts a wide population, and there wasn't even a proper design discussion.

I also understand the context, with the new California law that is mandating age gates. This change can be seen as theater to comply without implementing tighter controls. However, it's not set in stone yet, which is why other projects did not implement equivalent changes.

There is a background issue with how large systems incrementally constrain populations. Minority groups tend to be sensitive to that because it's happened to us a lot. That is an explanation for some of the response you see generally. People see how "innocent" and "optional" fields today become "mandatory" and oppressive fields tomorrow. So, I understand the reaction, and dislike when valid concerns are dismissed.

Jordan Maris 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 #NAFO 14h ago

@h3mmy @BuuBuu @aral @GrapheneOS @VoidLinux again, you are under no obligation to provide it. It isn't 'opt out". At worst there will be a field at install time to input it, just like there is a field for full name, and if you don't fill it in, sobeit. Also we are talking about open source here. It is specifically resilient to this kind of bullshit.

Aral Balkan 13h ago

@jmaris @h3mmy @BuuBuu @GrapheneOS @VoidLinux Right, if people don’t like it, they can just fork their operating system. I’ve forked three this week and it’s not even Thursday.

Jordan Maris 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 #NAFO 2h ago

@aral @h3mmy @BuuBuu @GrapheneOS @VoidLinux as I said, they can just not fill out the field.

Aral Balkan 1h ago

@jmaris @h3mmy @BuuBuu @GrapheneOS @VoidLinux You realise this isn’t just about a field, right, but what it represents and what it enables?

Jordan Maris 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 #NAFO

@aral @h3mmy @BuuBuu @GrapheneOS @VoidLinux again. How can this impact you if the field is not filled in?

Kim Spence-Jones 🇬🇧😷54m ago

@jmaris @aral @h3mmy @BuuBuu @GrapheneOS @VoidLinux
You do sound a bit naïve. There are both social implications and architectural ones. Socially, it’s the thin end of a wedge. Architecturally it is fundamentally wrong that the OS should be managing PII. For a start, many Linux systems don’t have an associated ‘user’, and some are multi-user. I can’t see why anyone is defending systemd’s position on this.

Jordan Maris 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 #NAFO 49m ago

@KimSJ @aral @h3mmy @BuuBuu @GrapheneOS @VoidLinux so do you envisage a world where filling in this field becomes compulsory?

Kim Spence-Jones 🇬🇧😷33m ago

@jmaris @aral @h3mmy @BuuBuu @GrapheneOS @VoidLinux
We seem to be moving in that direction.