FoxtrotDeltaTangoJust a reminder
Diva (she/her)I refuse to stop shit talking democrats, if they weren’t absolutely complicit warmongers we wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place.
agamemnonymousHow so?
What do you mean how so?
The democrats are prolific warmongers, they just think they’re smarter about it than Republicans.
Oh I’m not arguing that, I’m just asking how that would have kept us out of this mess.
If they weren’t prolific warmongers and instead did things that were actually popular at home then they would probably be seen as more trustworthy and not lost to Trump repeatedly, idk how more to spell it out for you
Maybe, but then they would’ve been buried by AIPAC money, as we’ve repeatedly seen. They’ve done plenty of positive things at home, or at least tried to, but all that gets ignored. Sure, I’d love to see a positive change, but we have to acknowledge the reality of the political landscape, and opposing Israel is political suicide with current campaign finance influences.
They didn’t oppose Israel at all and they ate complete shit anyways.
they may have ‘tried’ to do positive things at home, but they also spent billions arming a genocide which triggered a blockade of the red sea and disrupted supply chains. Failing to negotiate a settlement with russia didn’t do energy markets any favors, the blowback from sanctions and energy prices absolutely contributed to inflation that people felt, and then blamed on democrats. ‘brandonflation’
Like you can make excuses about AIPAC or whatever, but the people who felt the consequences of these wars voted accordingly. It sucks that there was no left candidate to vote for and that resulted in republicans winning. However that’s also the democrats fault for not running a real primary and ignoring all the people voting uncommitted.
There were plenty of warnings, they were just ignored.
Sure, but Democratic voters are not democratic leadership. If you have a problem with Democratic leadership, tell it to them. Voters don’t benefit from Democrats losing to Republicans.
I actually spent a lot of time trying to communicate just that to my democratic representative, along with hundreds of other constituents. ‘Democratic leadership’ was completely unresponsive.
At this point I’m not going to waste more of my time talking to people with no interest in listening.
Voters don’t benefit from Democrats losing to Republicans.
Maybe ‘democratic leadership’ should fuck off (ideally forever) so that the republicans stop winning.
I’m not sure how that would make Republicans stop winning they have quite the devoted voting base.
If the current crop of democrats were replaced with principled people who don’t arm genocides and tank the economy, voters would actually have a reason to vote for them instead of staying home or voting Republican. This isn’t that complicated.
That said, I’m not surprised you seem to have a hard time envisioning victory without catering to genocidal warmongers. It’s an unfortunately common condition.
I don’t disagree on principle, but that “if” is doing industrial machinery level heavy lifting. I’d love to live in that world, I really truly would. Unfortunately, I have to live in this one. I’m over here trying to make lemonade comrade, and you’re trying to make strawberry shortcake with strawberries we don’t have.
Don’t mistake me articulating a vision with me believing that it is immenant.
Electoral success tends to follow movements and movements tend to hinge on material reality, ie what the conditions on the ground are
To play on your analogy, i don’t think we’re going to be able to survive on lemonade and whenever i suggest trying to plant some beans the lemonade fans accuse me of wanting to cut the lemon tree down
Avid AmoebaBeyond the more general point, a concrete example - if the Biden admin didn’t supply unlimited bombs to Israel, they would not have lost to Trump. There’s enough numbers to support this claim.
🌞 Alexander Daychilde 🌞Nobody is saying not to shit talking them, people are saying that nuance is needed. We need to push for better representatives. BUT. When the general election happens, we need to vote Democrat because REPUBLICANS ARE FUCKING FASCISTS. Because while both sides suck, both sides do not suck equally. So shit talk your Democrats, as long as you shit talk your Republicans even more. Or do they get a pass because you write them off as evil?
Does your shit talking drive people away from voting for Democrats when the vote is Dem vs Repub? If so, you support fascism. Plain and simple.
Put your energy into change where it matters: Primaries, other offices, pushing society back to the left away from fascism. Make sure you’re not helping the fascists win.
The OP meme is not calling for nuance, it’s saying that if you’re shittalking democrats you’re helping Republicans win.
My democrat state rep sucks and is in practice a thinly-veiled Republican coasting on incumbency and people not investigating beyond the ‘D’
My federal rep (D) has been actively complicit in perpetuating the genocide in Palestine and allowing Trump to walk all over Venezuela. I actually put in a lot of effort with antiwar groups to try to sway them in the past. What I learned is that when it comes to war and empire if they want to climb the ranks in DC they’re going to tow the line.
Open Republicans are obviously worse, but theyre also a non factor in my state, they just run for ‘nonpartisan’ seats or pose as democrats. This is also why i chaff at vote-bluers, they will act like challenging an incumbent ‘democrat’ who sucks is somehow helping Republicans