Mastodawn

Sam Clemente 2d ago

@evan Yes, but it isn't a cut and dry, across the board answer

There are issues with social media in general with the sheer amount of access that anyone can have to an onslaught of information

But that's also an important part of allowing people to find themselves

malte 2d ago

@evan I wanted to say yes, but. But I think the most truthful answer for me is just yes. I think overall they are also unhealthy for adults. They're a fact of our world now, so I am betting on trying to improve them. It is a majro part of why I am on the fediverse.

@malte isn't this a social network?

malte 2d ago

@evan It is. I think you know that too, so I wonder how come you ask.

@malte because you said that you're on the Fediverse because social networks are unhealthy for kids and adults. For me, that means either that you don't think the Fediverse is a social network, or that you think it's ok or necessary to do something unhealthy.

malte 2d ago

@evan What I meant to say is that I think the way social networks work at the moment are overall unhealthy for us. The reason I'm here is that I see this as the most likely place to improve the situation.

@malte @evan I think you conflate social network with commercial web platforms. The profit motive has a way of encouraging child abuse and exploitation. But the corpos don't get to define social networks. They try but don't let them.

@resl You don't see how I conflate the two. They are separate in my mind, to the best of my own knowledge. What I do see is that the culture and norms many of us have learned on the commecial platforms, and that are perhaps even independent of them, like posing, self-obsessive thought, lots of anxious mind-reading of others and popularity contests, they exist here too. @evan

@malte @evan It was a grossly abstract question in the first place: "Are social networks unhealthy for minors?" It almost seems to intend to get people talking past each other.

I just wanted to point out the definition of
'social network' that might not come to most of us automatically but might have inspired the poll's terms.

@malte @evan

I think that to attribute social ills to social networks is like attributing pain to one's own body.

I think the question of whether social networks are unhealthy or not tricks us into thinking more generally about the issue than could possibly be useful for us in trying to actually deal with the issue (of minors' "healthiness" or what is "unhealthy" for kids).

@resl The analogy doesn't quite hold up when you consider that social networks in the sense that I assume it is meant in the poll (the vast social networks through the internet) are a relatively new phenomenon. I believe our community skills and abilities to attune to other people have not progressed fast enough to meet the scale of people coming into our lives these days. And that the effect overall is unhealthy. @evan

@malte @evan That's right - if we stick to the social media platform definition of "social networks" then surely I can see the difference. I was referring to the society/social group definition of social networks.

Using the platform definition, I still think blaming the platforms distracts us from the reason that the big platforms are the way they are. I think I understand and agree with you. I'll stop trying to turn this into a conversation I like better lol.

@resl I think I get you now. Your working definition of "social network" in this thread is independent of online/AFK - you're thinking of networks of people that don't necessarily have any contact via internet, is that it?

@malte Yeah, I hoped to point out that the pollster might have used the term "social networks" because it has this double meaning and if people consider that it might help highlight the important role social media could play if policymakers treated the tech as a tool to support healthy social groups rather than a tool for profit regardless of the effects.

I think I tend to overestimate the likelihood that there are clever pro-social intentions behind what everyone is doing.

Evan Prodromou 1d ago

@malte But do you think this social platform is net unhealthy for people as it is right now?

@evan Yes, as it is right now, unfortunately still part of the larger trends that overall make us unhappy. My theory is the larger context has much bigger impact than the fediverse can reverse as it is. We are in most respects a product of the larger context.

@evan @malte

Ever have a glass of wine?

Alcohol is toxic to every human tissue, but we put in place precautions... We rigorously regulate the production, distribution, sale, and consumption of it. We have medical interventions for its abuse. We attach social stigma to those who purposefully abuse it.

We do ZERO of those things to social media, despite knowing that, especially in terms of mental health it can be as bad or worse for especially young people than alcohol and or drug abuse.....

So, yeah. Sometimes people choose to do things that are "bad" for them, but they can make informed decisions.

Social Media has suffered few if any of the oversights, restrictions, repercussions, as other harmful activities.

It's well past time we started.

@ClintonAnderson Thank you, that builds nicely on where I was going. I agree it would be helpful to have more support to use any social network appropriately. @evan

@malte @evan

More support

More oversight

More accountability

I'm more than willing to bet at the heart of every billionaire owned "social media" is an egregious grift.

mojala 2d ago

@evan Yes but also everyone.

Lorraine Lee 2d ago

@evan Yes, but the ends don't justify the means IYKWIM

2d ago

@evan especially commercial networks and not just for minors

@evan Social networks are unhealthy, the way they work today.

@renata like this one?

@evan Yes. I wish we didn't feel the need to use a social network *at all* but the fact that it's virtually impossible to exist in 2026 without a social network is not a healthy thing.

I'm here because it's the best option available but I wish this was not something necessary.

@evan I removed myself from The Big Ones and people *don't talk to me anymore*

They don't know how to talk to me. They can't find me if it's not by looking it up on some social network.

Don't you think that's a little weird? If I delete my account here, I'm going to basically disappear.

@renata I think we got used to that circle we didn't have before social media. Even with social media platforms usually there is a hand full of closer friends we meet, call or write regularly. And before social media there was the "work circle" maybe a sports club. But there wasn't that huge fuzzy circle of "facebook friends". @evan

@kleisli @evan A lot of people complain about social anxiety and loneliness, and I truly believe that the over reliance on social networks to be basically the only source of connection is the driving force behind that

You had both the ability to completely disconnect and also had to make an effort to go out and find whatever new things you wanted, things humans have done for centures.

In 10 years, we lost that. Of course our minds feel weird.

@kleisli @evan Also, performing is exhausting. Social networks train people to perform 24/7.

You take a picture but it’s not for your personal album, it’s for many likes.

You post something and keep waiting for someone else to reply, or worried about others might think.

An entire generation grew up not knowing what is having a private thought

@renata I agree 100% and this does not exclude the fediverse.
For me it is very ambivalent. I enjoy it being able to discuss with people like you or @evan - this only happens with social media (including forums or mailing lists). But at the same time there is that FOMO and the feeling that I need to perform and post smart answers.

Renata 🇨🇦🐈1d ago

@kleisli @evan Yes.

I deleted my instagram January 1st and, initially, I missed my computer connections but what I noticed as the time went by was that I didn’t feel this urge to photograph curated pictures anymore. I still take lots of pictures every day of things I see, but they’re mine so I don’t care if they’re not perfect.

I also have a handwritten journal, on paper, so I can write for myself.

Doing things for yourself is good, man.

@renata @kleisli @evan

Excuse me, bartender

Yeah, whatever Renata here is having next, please make it a double and put it on my tab.

Because Renata here has hit the nail on the motor-flippin head!

Sing it!

Renata 🇨🇦🐈1d ago

@ClintonAnderson @kleisli @evan ❤️❤️❤️

@renata

Thanks for being here to be followed!

Highest of fives eh!

Evan Prodromou 1d ago

@kleisli @renata Don't feel pressure to respond on my account.

@renata Thinking about it, the last platform that was a place to be connected to friends for me was the early facebook. Twitter, Instagram and now the Fediverse were always more information, public discussion and entertainment platforms. @evan

@renata like methadone?

δανσω 2d ago

@evan no but abusive companies are unhealthy for everyone

James M.2d ago

@evan not inherently, but platforms that manipulate children's psychology to maximize profit are unhealthy and IMO extremely unethical.

Benjamin Kwiecień 🇵🇸2d ago

@evan when I was a kid ten thousand years ago we didn't have these kinds of things, and I feel that young me was better off mentally being able to go home and have zero contact with my peers. Home used to be a safe place from the world, but now the world enters your home. Imagine being a teenager and having to deal with other teenagers after school and at night while in your bedroom and living room

@evan yes, but also for adults

Kagami is they/them 🏳️‍⚧️2d ago

@evan social networks? no. addictive corporate social network? yes. (so no but)

Bjarne 2d ago

@evan No, but their algorithms are and not just for kids.

halcy

2d ago

@evan no, but: websites and apps that optimize for maximum addiction ("engagement") so that they can sell more ads are bad for *everyone*, and *everyone* includes minors. some of those websites are social networks. it's not a wrong statement, but putting the focus on "social network" and "minors" is doubly the wrong focus.

Rob Ricci 2d ago

@evan I'm curious how many people voting on this have young ones (I have a teen, and voted "no but" because they have an incredible social life, largely fueled by keeping in touch with people online, but we have so far restricted them to networks of closed groups, not "open world" social networks, mostly)

Paul 2d ago

@evan Not inherently, but as soon as someone decides to introduce an algorithm to increase engagement they become unhealthy for everyone.

Thomas Cloer 2d ago

@evan Yes, if you mean "social" networks with feeds populated by intransparent algorithms.

Mark Andrew 2d ago

@evan

Yes, but pretty much everything is unhealthy for minors, so there you go.

@spraoi @evan I hope you don't have kids. How could you possibly protect them from... almost everything? 😮

Mark Andrew 1d ago

@resl @evan

We can't. It's one of those inevitable tragedies of life.

All we can hope to achieve is to provide them with the tools to defend themselves against threats we probably haven't imagined yet.

@spraoi @evan I don't have kids because I would be overwhelmed by this. I feel sympathy for parents and I did not mean to suggest I actually discourage you from parenting. It sounds to me like you are a very caring parent. I don't envy anyone that task.

Thomas Guyot-Sionnest 2d ago

@evan No, the GAFAM are unhealthy for minors.

Stefan Monnier 1d ago

@dermoth @evan I agree except for the extraneous last two words. Should we rename GAFAM to SC (surveillance capitalism)?

Thomas Guyot-Sionnest 1d ago

@monnier @evan I never said it was unhealthy only for minors.

I believe the poll is about the recent bans, and those wouldn't apply to adults, just like we don't ban alcohol for adults even though it's unhealthy for everyone.

There is probably also an unlimited number of things you can replace GAFAM with, but it's also going off topic, I'm only clarifying why I responded no to the poll 🙂

Max Lee 2d ago

@evan No, not in general, but the way most current profit-oriented, algorithmic networks work are unhealthy.

climbertobby 2d ago

@evan Not social networks per se, but the purposefully addictive design that tries to keep people on platforms and show them ads and the lack of reporting and moderation are issues that affect everyone but minors disproportionally

Brecht Savelkoul 2d ago

@evan No, but targeted advertising is, so in practice most are.

Nathan A. Stine 2d ago

@evan depends on the social network, but not inherently. So I went with "no, but."

Gemma ⭐️🔰🇺🇸 🇵🇭 🎐2d ago

@evan It is not that social networks exist, or that they are social that makes them unhealthy, it's algorithmic manipulation by billionaires.

I have just had the unfortunately experience these past few days of what happens when Facebook randomly decides to put my political posts in front of the eyeballs of angry white men.