Mastodawn

Are Europeans more well versed with world geography than Americans?

https://lemmy.zip/post/61380209

Are Europeans more well versed with world geography than Americans? - Lemmy.zip

I’ve seen multiple videos equivalent of Americans pointing where (country) is on the map, and there was an instance where the host asked the woman where the continent Africa is located (points to Asia) like WTF? That’s not even close at all. I know there’s bias towards those types of videos since there are accusations of the host “handpicking” select strangers framing them as if they are representative of the US. But the truth is that their education system isn’t good as it lacks funding. When you put it into perspective: how many Europeans can correctly locate & name countries adjacent to them within their own continent and globally? Is the education system within the EU that good or effective at teaching kids that subject?

Survey Reveals Geographic Illiteracy

The National Geographic-Roper 2002 Global Geographic Literacy Survey polled more than 3,000 18- to 24-year-olds in Canada, France, Germany, Great Britain, Italy, Japan, Mexico, Sweden and the United States.

Science

laut_sprecher 5d ago

While you are likely still correct, citing a survey from 2002 does not work in favor of your point

It probably got worse by now

HuudaHarkiten 5d ago

Yes and no, I guess.

Theres some grade A morons in Europe as well. But I guess on the whole Europeans have better base education compared to the Americans. Doesn’t help that Americans keep speaking of “Europe” as a whole, while Europe speaks of multiple different European countries as individuals.

To be fair we usually do the same about Africa

angrystego 5d ago

But we do know the states, right? I remember my highschool friend not being alowed to go to a party unless she told her dad which states were neighbors of Burundi.

Yeah well. I can tell you if a country is in Africa or not, but I can maybe pin 20% of them with accuracy.

Quick fire quiz: Which of these are in Africa?

Guinea
Guyana
Papua New Guinea
Guinea-Bissau
Equatorial Guinea

Trick question! All of these are made up!

Pantherina (he)4d ago

Lol

“Europe is a TERRIBLE Country”: www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbtchT6Bt-k

Europe is a TERRIBLE Country

YouTube

KoboldCoterie 5d ago

How many Europeans can point out Kansas on a map? I’d bet I could find just as many Europeans ignorant of North American geography as they find Americans ignorant of European geography, especially since, as you point out, they cherry pick the most ignorant sounding responses.

Che Banana 5d ago

Kansas, a state, is not the equivalent of Africa, A continent as pointed out by OP.

OTOH, EU education varies w I d e l y and the American system is overall mediocre

KoboldCoterie 5d ago

I would say Kansas as an American is roughly equivalent to a European country to a European. South America would be the equivalent of Africa, and while I agree that everyone should be able to name the continents, I’m very confident that I could find a European who could not point out South America if I cherry picked enough. I bet I’d get someone pointing to Mexico eventually.

FatVegan 5d ago

What a weird thing to say. You think finding Kansas on a map is equal to finding france on a map?

KoboldCoterie 5d ago

I think judging Americans for not knowing your local geography is pretty stupid, and I think judging Europeans for not knowing our local geography is also stupid, so in that sense yes, I think they’re equal.

Finding Kansas is equivalent to finding Thüringen, Graubünden or Bourgogne-Franche-Comté.

The thing is most Europeans know your local geography. They know which continent, the part of it is the US and where and what (mostly) your capitol is.

KoboldCoterie 5d ago

Being able to point out the US on a map is like pointing out Russia. You can just throw a dart in the general right direction and you have a pretty good chance of hitting it just because of how absurdly large it is. Even if all you know is the continent and nothing else, you have more or less a 1 in 3 chance if you just guess a random spot. Calling the location of the country in North America and the general location of the capital “knowing our local geography” is like me claiming to know European geography (which I certainly don’t) just because I can point to Russia, Italy, England and a few other rather distinct locations.

Oh it’s about size you mean? What is is a reasonable size for you to learn where a country is? And I mean, can you even name all the countries in, say Europe, without putting them on a map?

Funny thing about Russia. It’s mostly in Asia so I mean you’re technically correct but 🤷

KoboldCoterie 5d ago

I’m not implying that size has any relevance to importance, merely to the general chance that someone can point to it on a map. It’s a lot easier to identify Greenland than it is to identify Guatemala purely because it’s a bigger target and it’s more visible.

No, I sure can’t name all of the European countries. Can you name all of the North American countries? (Why is either at all relevant?)

And what about it? Most know where the US and Russia is because of education, not because they’re big and they can hazard a guess.

Because you talk about size and pointing out on a map as defining for geographic knowledge. Of course Europe is confusing for you if you don’t even know what the continent contains.

Can you name all of the North American countries?

Of course lol

KoboldCoterie 4d ago

Of course lol

Can you? All 23 of them? If so, good for you (not being sarcastic), but I’d be willing to bet very good money that if I went and picked 10 random Europeans that at least 8 if not all 10 would not be able to do so.

Finding Kansas is equivalent to finding Thüringen, Graubünden or Bourgogne-Franche-Comté.

Mesophar 5d ago

Actually, unironocally, kind of? Like, maybe not equating those two examples specifically, but even just looking at the EU, not even all of Europe. There are 27 countries in the EU, and 50 states in the USA. I doubt the average American (USA) would be able to name and/or label all 27 countries in the EU, but would the average citizen of the EU be able to name and/or label 27+ states in the USA? I don’t know, I don’t know what the education system is like, but I doubt it. And while yes, a state is not the same as a country, just from the land mass and population counts, the comparison isn’t too far off.

Yeah, the education in the USA sucks. It is definitely sub-par to many other countries, and definitely lacks in “worldly” knowledge. Part of that is because of lack of funding and prioritizing education. Part of it is from lack of prioritizing foreign affairs and history in the average curriculum. But part of it is also from lack of proximity. An EU citizen learning about European history makes sense. How much do EU citizens learn about the history of China and its provinces? About African countries, their conflicts and politics, and histories?

So yeah, being able to find France on the map might be equivalent to finding Kansas, but it certainly is equivalent to finding Texas or California.

How much do EU citizens learn about the history of China and its provinces? About African countries, their conflicts and politics, and histories?

Except we’re talking about the USA, you know, a country created just yesterday by Europeans. Let’s not equate this with knowing who was emperor of China 3000 BC.

Mesophar 2d ago

Who said anything about ancient history? Let’s just look at the last 200 years and see how much there is to know, or not know about those areas. Not to say anything about indiginous peoples. And geography related information? How does that have anything to do with 3000BC? I’m not saying the breadth of the history of the United States is anything compared to European or Asian histories, but unless you were alive for all of that your personal experience with recent history is just the same.

SaveTheTuaHawk 5d ago

I’m very confident that I could find a European who could not point out South America if I cherry picked enough

I’m sure you are very confident.

Rick Mercer got criticized for his “Talking to Americans” running gag on CBC for cherry picking, so he went onto the Harvard quad and got the same results from Harvard professors.

KoboldCoterie 5d ago

That was specifically a response to the point that someone thought Asia was Africa. I doubt Harvard professors are making that mistake.

JohnnyEnzyme 5d ago

How many Europeans can point out Kansas on a map?

What does that have to do with anything? OP was talking about world and Euro-adjacent areas, not ‘can Americans identify Euro nations the same way Euros can identify the states of the USA?’

Regardless, it seems to me perfectly natural for people living in a hodge-podge of cultures & nations to be more knowledgeable about their surroundings and even world geography than Americans, which is more isolated on various levels. Not to mention, commonly filled with a level of exceptionalism.

KoboldCoterie 5d ago

Kansas is as close to Americans geographically as European countries are to Europeans. Asking Americans to be as familiar with European geography as Europeans is the equivalent to asking Europeans to be familiar with us states.

JohnnyEnzyme 5d ago

Not really. States have natural variance in culture and features, but Euro nations are vastly more diverse and worth knowing about. They go back to the ancient world in importance, and some of them had a huge impact in what the modern map & modern world looks like.

American states are largely irrelevant by comparison. There are very few reasons for people around the world to know anything about Kansas in particular, compared to one of the Euro colonial powers, like Greece or Italy, etc.

KoboldCoterie 5d ago

Sure, but there’s different levels of geographical knowledge in education. Local geography is a few years before in depth world geography. You seem to be ignoring that your local geography is worlds geography to Americans, so if you’re using geography as a basis for judging education, at least compare apples to apples. I’ll readily admit that most Americans are ignorant of European geography, just like I’d bet plenty of Europeans can’t point out countries in South America.

JohnnyEnzyme 5d ago

You seem to be ignoring that your local geography is worlds geography to Americans…

What do you “my local geography?” What are you even trying to say, here?

KoboldCoterie 5d ago

I mean whatever geography is local to you, assuming you aren’t in America.

JohnnyEnzyme 5d ago

Alright. Well for me, there’s no question that (going to the OP) Euros have a better grasp of World geography than Americans do, for various good reasons already stated.

On top of that, I see a long thread of what is essentially mental illness running through American history, leading its citizens to believe that they’re special and/or live in a special land, promoting a sort of intentional ignorance about the world around them. Geography is part of that, but it’s much more, such as a cultural and historical isolation.

Not to mention, as Ken Burns said (paraphrasing) “Americans are shockingly ignorant of their own history and narrative.” It is an embarrassing truth that, the longer I live, the more relentlessly confirmed and depressing it is to me.

It’s all very nauseating to me, frankly, especially seeing as what it led to in the end. Anyway, I’ll be withdrawing myself from this convo at this point. Good luck to you.

angrystego 5d ago

Perhaps it would be better to try to compare European and US knowledge of Africa - that’s neutral ground.

KoboldCoterie 4d ago

I’d argue (and have) that South America would be the equivalent to Africa (that is to say, a neighboring continent). If the original post had just said “Do Europeans have better geographical knowledge than Americans?” I’d not have objected, to be clear; the objection is to the basis for that statement being these videos making Americans look stupid for not knowing European geography. That’s just stupid.

There it is…the arrogance. We"re old we matter. You’re young you dont. How quickly everyone forgets.

JohnnyEnzyme 3d ago

Not sure what you’re talking about, but on the surface it looks like you’re trying to jam a square peg through a round hole. Good luck with that…

Your arrogance is preventing your understanding

I’m pretty sure most people outside of the USA would fail to point to Kansas on a map. That’s roughly equivalent to asking for someone to point to Brittany (administrative region of France). Just like I’m sure most people outside of Canada would struggle to locate Nova Scotia on a map. Heck even I sometimes mix up where New Brunswick and Nova Scotia are and I grew up in Canada. Administrative regions really aren’t relevant outside of their own country, but country borders are relevant internationally.

I do wonder how much North American geography the average US resident knows though. Like how (part of) France is part of NA or which island(s) is for which Caribbean country.

So many opportunities to cherry-pick funny and wild answers.

KoboldCoterie 5d ago

That’s more or less my point. Americans learn (or less m at least did when I was in school) where all 50 states are, as well as nearby countries. We didn’t cover European, African or Asian geography in depth just like Europeans don’t cover North and South American geography in depth (from what I understand).

angrystego 5d ago

So what depth are we talking about?

rumschlumpel 5d ago

Kansas is about as different from other US states as Bavaria is from other German states. And Bavaria’s population is over four times bigger, too.

Most European countries have their own language, army (+ foreign policy separate from the EU), political system and often currency. US states have none of those.

KoboldCoterie 5d ago

They’re more diverse, no question there, but that’s for nothing to do with memorized lines on a map, which is what we’re talking about, I thought?

rumschlumpel 5d ago

OP asked about continents and countries, US states are neither. IMO, it’s about how relevant the entity is - US states simply aren’t as important as countries.

And I bet most Europeans can name and roughly locate more US states than most USians can name and roughly locate European states, anyway.

KoboldCoterie 5d ago

States are more important to Americans than European countries are, when it comes to knowing where things are, because Americans interact with other states with the same regularity that Europeans interact with other countries. The point that I’m trying to make, which seems to be being largely ignored, is that comparing American knowledge of European geography to European knowledge of European geography is just as disingenuous a comparison as comparing European knowledge of US states to American knowledge of US states.

The problem is that you’re bringing fort that point by making a terrible comparison. This is about countries which US states are not.

A better comparison would have been that Americans have better knowledge about the Caribbean islands than Europe and that Europeans does the opposite.

KoboldCoterie 5d ago

See, I don’t think that that distinction is nearly as important as you do. It’s more about the number of things to name in a given area. Expecting Americans to know all 50 US states is roughly equivalent to expecting Europeans to know all ~50(ish?) European countries. The distinction between states is far more important to our day to day lives than anything in Europe is.

The distinction between states is far more important to our day to day lives than anything in Europe is.

You hit the nail on the head there mate.

Honytawk 4d ago

What lines? Because there are no lines inside the USA when looking at a world map.

KoboldCoterie 4d ago

I’m really not sure if this is just folks not understanding that there’s differences in how things are taught between countries, or if it’s just willful ignorance.

My only familiarity with European school systems is what I’ve been told, so you can feel free to correct me if this is incorrect, but my understanding is that at the same grade level where Europeans are learning the European countries, Americans are learning the US states. It’s even roughly the same number of data points to learn. Just because the map you selected doesn’t show these particular lines on the map does not mean they don’t exist, and US states are, purely in terms of land area and population, about equivalent to European countries.

To head off the objection before it comes, we also learn the counties and important cities in our own states, which would be the equivalent of learning subdivisions of European countries.

Europeans are learning the European countries, Americans are learning the US states.

This is the thing. I had the differences in our education explained to me as in Europe we get shallow knowledge on a broad spectrum while in the US you get deep knowledge on a narrow spectrum. So we learn about others, you learn about you. 😄

And to add to that, of course we learn about our own regions and communes additionally.

KoboldCoterie 3d ago

We simply define “us” and “others” differently. You can kind of think of the US like the EU, and the states as the individual member countries; they’re not too dissimilar, except that the federal government has more power than the EU as a whole does. Our state divisions are (to us) equivalent to the country divisions in the EU. Each has its own population, its own laws, its own governing body, its own culture. States don’t have particularly much in common with each other in many cases. Even very close by states - take Maine and Massachusetts for example (two states I’ve lived in, and can therefore comment on). Very different vibe between the two; very distinctly different accents, different mannerisms, different customs. They each have stereotypes about the other. ‘Masshole’ is a slur that’s not too uncommon to hear in Maine, usually referring to drivers from Massachusetts who’re visiting.

Europeans (broadly speaking, based on the comments in this thread specifically) seem to think state lines are fairly arbitrary but it’s definitely not the case. I’m not sure why you (seem to) feel that learning about other states is somehow “lesser” than learning about other countries in the EU or Europe as a whole. The US covers a land area more than twice as large as the EU, and has just under twice as many states as the EU has countries. The US population is about 75% of the population of the entire EU. Somehow, though, learning about that is treated (in this thread) like Germans learning about Germany to the exclusion of all else.

You can kind of think of the US like the EU

Absolutely not. You can make a comparison with other federations like Germany or Switzerland maybe, but the EU is a very different political entity.

Very different vibe between the two; very distinctly different accents, different mannerisms, different customs. They each have stereotypes about the other.

This is true in all European countries as well, no matter how tiny.

I’m not sure why you (seem to) feel that learning about other states is somehow “lesser” than learning about other countries

See, this is what you seem to miss. We learn about other countries. We learn about yours as well, but not on a much deeper scale than where it is, its capitol and its political system. And well, it seems like some in Europe learn about your states as well, which is more than we do for other countries. I couldn’t name more than a couple of ‘states’ in my neighbouring countries and that I have learned as an adult.

I don’t understand why you seem to think that size and population somehow would grant you extra interest. If that was the case India, Russia, Canada and China would all be more interesting than the US and we don’t give those extra attention.

KoboldCoterie 3d ago

Look, I feel like we’re not really getting anywhere with this… we’re kind of just rehashing the same arguments and not really seeing eye to eye. I don’t think I’m getting my points across effectively, or perhaps you’re simply misunderstanding what I’m trying to say and that’s fine, but we’ve drifted pretty far from the original topic. The US and European countries differ quite a bit in education and values, I think we’ve established that much, but it seems like we’re drifting into ‘My country is better! No, my country is better!’ territory which I really don’t want to do. Let’s just agree that they’re different, and leave it at that.

Whats_your_reasoning 3d ago

I can’t help but wonder if this whole argument is related to the fact that many US-based maps and globes tend to show the outlines of each US state as well. It confused the hell out of me as a kid. I’d see each state outlined and colored differently on maps, and think that the countries in Europe or Africa were also states. When my parents pointed out that no, those are countries, I’d ask why the US states were shown the same way, but other countries didn’t show their states (or equivalent boundaries.) Never did get a good answer.

Someone growing up seeing their states depicted equally to how other countries are depicted, on the same map, could easily think the differences are equally important between US states as between countries. If you grow up being told your country is the best in the world, and even globes make a point to show how important your different states in particular are, it’s not surprising that someone could come away thinking the differences between Arkansas and Michigan are just as important as the differences between Finland and Bulgaria.

Why on earth would anyone outside the US be expected to know US administrative regions? This is not even remotely the same thing. Can you point out the canton of Schaffhausen?

angrystego 5d ago

Europeans do learn the location of the states at school though. It might not stick with everyone, but we are expected to know it.