People already are using "i saw this video before 2023" as a signature that the video is eligible to be believed. Soon, "this software was developed before 2025" will be the only sign that makes software eligible to be run.
when a project is developed in such a way that every line of it might be changed tomorrow in incomprehensible ways, how could you ever trust that software?
this is not a hypothetical, this is how i evaluate code right now. if it is perfect boilerplate with sole contributor and repo creation date >mid 2025, i do not run that code

@jonny there was some quote from some big executive saying “in a few months AI is going to make email unusable [due to OpenClaw allowing any idiot to create personalised spam]”.

Surprised pikachu face.

This is not the tech we grew up with. This is big capital wearing its skin.

@jonny So those of us shouldn't bother starting new projects? Because we'll spend all our time defending our status as organics rather than hacking code?

This makes me wonder if it's even worth working on OSS anymore.

@drwho @jonny you work on FOSS for maybe the same reason you started: you have an itch that must be scratched. You share it to help people with a similar itch. You use code you trust because it helps you scratch (but maybe vendor it).

“Success” of OSS in enterprise tech was a wish granted by a monkey’s paw. Go back to the roots.

@drwho
I'm realizing my off the cuff thoughts here are being taken a bit more literally than I intended - there's a whole aura to AI code that isn't just timestamp and contributor count, its pretty easy to tell when something was written by a human being. I was mostly commenting on the similarity between what's happened to perception of video and perception of code - that in general post AI things have a higher threshold of trust and require closer scrutiny. I certainly would never lead nor encourage some witch hunt to prove humanity or vice versa, just like if I find some random GH repo lying around I take a closer look at who did it and how it was written.

tl;dr not giving up on FOSS

@jonny could be ai or #pastagang

i trust neither

@TodePond pastagang code is the complete opposite end of the pool - code that you take delight in knowing that it cannot possibly be trusted
@jonny hahaha
@TodePond (i am feeling the need to be hyper-clear tn, but hopefully that was received with all the love that was intended)
@jonny of course!
@TodePond @jonny it not being trustable is good. that makes it live-er
@TodePond @jonny i can think of two vulnerabilities in the current pastagang deployments that i host, but probably noone will find and use them, and its on the server that has no sensitive data anyway so whatever
@TodePond @jonny this is also why i didnt use forgejo actions. id have to have a runner but i dont have anything competent enough to run docker except for things that carry sensitive data. so i improvised with a horrible bad shitty bash script (excellent)
@jonny Or even if every line of it might be changed tomorrow in *comprehensible* ways.
@jonny "this software was discontinued before 2025"
@Ember "this software chose to self-destruct rather than be associated with the software it saw coming"
@jonny this is propaganda and i don't understand why you're saying it
@hipsterelectron
I am not sure what you mean? It is a true statement that people are using "I saw this before 2023" as a heuristic for whether a video is real or not, and I now use repo creation date (among other indicators) as a proxy for whether the code is likely to have been vibe coded. What is propaganda?
@jonny it's not the "only sign" that makes software eligible to run. it's irresponsible to make that claim and it diverts from the many existing ways to determine the provenance of creative works. it feeds nihilism instead of identifying ways creative works can be meaningfully sourced and verified. it serves the purpose behind the creation of these statistical systems that generate content to say that provenance can no longer be meaningfully distinguished beyond the creation date (as if backdating is not both possible and common). it demonstrates an example of critihype. nihilistic claims can be truly felt and still be irresponsible to propagate.

@hipsterelectron
Ok, well that is a very literal reading of what I'm saying here, but I see how you might read it that way. Maybe a closer phrasing to what I meant is just what I wrote above, "much like how people use pre/post AI as a marker for whether a video is likely to be real or not, I use pre/post AI as one of several indicators when I am evaluating a piece of software". Basically I was being glib.

I don't think its nihilistic, I still write code and still run code written recently, and of course all the other sources of provenance and social proof and etc. still exist. I guess the analogy to the video case is instructive - real videos still get taken and its important to not dismiss all recent videos as fabrications, but for recent videos you have to take extra special consideration of where it came from and other contextual markers surrounding it

@jonny it's not what i would have said and i consider it to be irresponsible when formulated as a public statement to be shared widely. similar sentiments are expressed by people i know you do not agree with who themselves do not actually possess the critical viewpoint you do in subsequent replies. i think it's worth considering the contribution such statements make towards a nihilistic understanding of a problem and how that disempowers your audience over educating them.
@jonny this is gonna be the 'keep it secret. keep it safe' of the 2020s huh

@jonny I lost my job in November, and while I haven't been looking hard, I've been dreading the landscape in finding a new senior job in the short term. But I'm optimistic in the long term because there basically isn't going to be a new generation of senior techs.

I'm the Low-Background Steel of engineering.

@ryan @jonny I got laid off a bit before you did, and trying to find any employment has been just not happening.

I have no idea how long this cycle is going to last.

@jonny

The Before Times.

Other timelines:

“Recently”: 2010 to 2020.
“The Other Day”: 2020-6 months ago
“When I Was…”: 80s-90s
“When music was truly awesome: hey, look, it’s SKA!”: 1987-1995
“C’mon, We Built This”: 1998-2009

Cf.:

“The Olden Days”: something like 1770-Boer War

“Web3 Era”: never happened.

@jonny I’d go back further, to before Microslop inflicted GitHub copilot on us
@jonny @Viss I was watching a dev stream for Legend of California and somebody asked them about ai. "No, we've been making this much longer than those tools have been around."

@jonny I didn't find the post but this feels strongly like a text I read months ago.

Basically it was a sort of museum/library place in the future. But one was forced to remove every electronic device even that usual one so not information can be transferred verbatim I to the AI world:

Upon entering, there were rooms parted into
- books guaranteed to not be AI influenced 2010ish
- unclear if AI influenced 2010-2015
- part where the books/media must be taken as probably poisonous 2015+