đšEarly to RISA đ§Anon makes some changes
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embed_meThatâs like saying itâs okay to eat to people who overeat on the daily
Sarah Valentine (she/her)The problem isnât masturbating.
dependencyinjectionEverything is a problem if youâre doing it compulsively or mask something else.
Masturbating can surprisingly help with restless leg syndrome but doing it in work might be a problem.
So you understand that the problem isnât doing the thing, itâs something else, and doing the thing is only bad because of that context. Then you ought to understand that treating the context is the solution, not insisting the person just not do the thing.
I get what youâre saying, but would you adopt the same stance for example for gambling or drinking alcohol? Theyâre not necessarily bad per se, itâs the compulsion and the trigger points it evokes for some people where I think itâs completely fine to just accept that for them not doing it at all - even if for a time - might be the correct move.
Comparing a natural behavior to dependency on addictive chemicals is a bit silly. Iâm not sure youâre taking this seriously. And before you come back with âmasturbation releases chemicals we can form a dependency onâ, literally SO many other mundane things have the same effect. Conservatives and fascists always care about this one in particular though, and thatâs the real reason weâre talking about it.
But thatâs exactly what I am saying, thereâs a wide variety of actions that - on their own - arenât really harmful if done in moderation. Sure gambling and drinking are more extreme examples, but you yourself agree that these actions ârelease chemicals we can form a dependency onâ. So does gambling, so does overeating, so does masturbation. If itâs an issue for the person and theyâre not doing it for a while then I also donât see the use in singling this out in the list of things here. If it helps the person get motivated/be proud and engage positive feedback loops to not do it, why single masturbation out as useless?
Of course, ânever fappingâ and automagically being a good person is an absurd manosphere grift to push. But if they were following a specific diet which in itself also doesnât turn your life around but gets the ball rolling would you have the same stance? If itâs part of a process of change for a person I just donât see the sense in such strong antipathy for this single case, I suppose.
In other words, of the list of things here - cold showers, room tidying, brushing teeth, not eating like crap - itâs the masturbation this thread singles out and tells the person: no that thing, you should definitely continue doing that. Just seems unproductive to me.
no that thing, you should definitely continue doing that. Just seems unproductive to me.
Who brought that idea in? You just made that up.
Of course, ânever fappingâ and automagically being a good person is an absurd manosphere grift to push. But if they were following a specific diet which in itself also doesnât turn your life around but gets the ball rolling would you have the same stance?
What weâre really talking about is the equivalent of following fad diets because a fascist with an agenda is trying to bend vulnerable people to a cause they donât understand, using psychological knowledge and conditioning techniques. These people are not consulting licensed professionals, theyâre not talking to psychiatrists or therapists, theyâre listening to Joe Rogen podcasts and Facebook propaganda.
So while all these other things you talk about might have some merit to them, thatâs not what weâre really talking about, nor what the problem actually is. The problem is these men live in a society that simultaneously tells them their desires are bad, show unrealistic body images and other impossible standards, tells them they need to work on themselves in superficial ways, and all while forcing them to live as wage slaves while the ultra-rich laugh at the hoops theyâre getting people to jump through.
Figure it out.
Who brought that idea in? You just made that up.
Oh, thatâs what I understood from the thread starting with:
its ok to fap
But I agree with your points, in general.
I guess where I am talking past you (or âlisteningâ past you, as it were) is that my argument is focused on this specific instance of someone doing something and I understood people to react with discouragement. Youâre embedding the discussion into a wider societal angle. It still seems somewhat strange to bring it up in this instance as the original post also doesnât mention any of the points you touch on and the ideas thus seem similarly âmade upâ and brought in, for this case, to me.
But I definitely donât have an argument with the points themselves, they are well made.
Yeah but drinking is inherently bad for you. Whether you âhave a problemâ or not, everyone would be healthier not drinking.
I do understand that, perhaps more acutely than most as Iâve had countless destructive âhobbiesâ (my god hobby is the softest word I could find here) that I used to mask the underlying issue. Heck Iâm still not sure I know the underlying cause but I have translated those destructive things with positive ones but the goal is the same. This is all to say Iâm well versed in addiction, compulsions, and poor mental health.
With that in mind I would say that sometimes you have to stop the thing youâre doing, letâs say masturbating here, so you can get your body back to baseline before you can even begin to work with a therapist or do some introspection.
Iâm not saying we should demonise masturbation, just accept that for some people they may need to stop doing that for a period whilst they then fix the other shit they got going on.
Iâm in my forties and really never been happy and had a shit childhood that is still the cause of the way my mind bullies me to this very day. Iâve tried therapy before but when youâre in the midst of masking all your shit with other shit you really canât make any progress in my experience. What Iâve done now is spend several years working on myself and replacing negative addictions with positive ones. That afforded me the will power to begin to remove the substances and other coping strategies. Now I actually feel Iâm in a place where I might benefit from some EMDR or trauma therapy.
With that in mind I would say that sometimes you have to stop the thing youâre doing, letâs say masturbating here, so you can get your body back to baseline before you can even begin to work with a therapist or do some introspection.
Iâm not saying we should demonise masturbation, just accept that for some people they may need to stop doing that for a period whilst they then fix the other shit they got going on.
If you think this is what ânofapâ is about, you donât understand the issue. Nofap isnât a step toward therapy, nor does it avoid demonizing masturbation. Itâs manosphere propaganda aimed at lonely, frustrated men to manipulate them through shame and further deprivation. People who have a genuine problem with self control where masturbation is concerned are just catching strays in this war where nofap ideology is a weapon.
I had no idea that nofap was what you just described. I saw the green text as the person taking all those positives steps to get back to living life and not some Andrew Tate thing.
I apologise for my misunderstanding and wading into this discussion, as my concern is for the people who are doing things compulsively not manosphere stuff.
Itâs 4chan. Of course itâs a manospheric conformist post. If they actually did all that shit to improve their lives theyâd also walk the fuck away from 4chan.
Guess I donât know much about 4chan other than seeing green texts and thinking itâs a bunch of oddballs trying to solve the odd murder.
Didnât know it was manosphere and donât know itâs political leaning.
Youâre probably better off not knowing, but if youâve ever heard of Pizzagate or QAnon, 4chan is where those delights came from.
festnt