MuskyMelonIsraeli soldiers torture one-year-old Gaza child to force confessions from his father
It’s just splendid that world gets to watch a genocidal colonial settler project akin to what European colonial powers were up to two hundred years ago all because Britain promised land to a group of people one hundred years ago. For an empire that loved beuraucracy how were they such absolute shit at drawing borders? I mean we know they believed in a global race based caste system (they believed white people were born superior) and were antisemitic enough to be excited at the prospect of Jewish people leaving their country but how do you fuck up the world this bad? Major skill issue in my opinion.
there’s a lot wrong with this comment. Israel was created as the league of nations pressured Britain Into creating a home for the Jewish populations displaced after the wars. other counties weren’t happy to take that population and the Jews themselves wanted to return to what they saw as they’re homeland. after WW1 Britain pledged support for their right to a nation and offered to help set that up but it wasn’t until 1947 when the united nations voted for their partition plan that it was decided to decide the land up into separate Arab and Jewish states. the Jews agreed, the arabs didn’t, and when in 1948 Israel declared independence (a joke I know considering their need for American support has never wanted) they and the Arab states were immediately in opposition and have been ever since. blame Britain and white people lol you want but actually they were wonky ever trying to help a people displaced by terrible persecution and who were unwanted by the rest of the world. it seems they still are, so maybe they have a point about that persecution…
Your history isn’t exactly right. While it is the popular reasoning, the plan is older than the war itself, so the logic doesn’t really make sense. It also started before the war ended, so the timing doesn’t line up either. They also started colonizing before the League of Nations decides on that plan, which forced their hand.
It’s all a whole lot murkier, messy, and bad than the version you gave.
the years of these events are historical facts, not sure what debate there is. nothing happens in a vacuum though and one thing leads to another etc. perhaps you’d like to show me sources for how I’m wrong? Jews have been in that area for 5000 years since the Canaanites, is that the colonising you are refering to? as I’m not sure that buzzword applies here
They are historic fact, as in they’re older than what you said. Here’s a Wikipedia page that has more information. Check out “Background”. Notice the date of the letter talking about “the zionist project” is 1902. Even in 1896 he talking about them colonizing Palestine. That’s well before the war. This plan was being set up, and enacted, far before what you said.
Jews have been in that area for 5000 years since the Canaanites
Dude, the people that ended up calling themselves jews and the other people from the region come from the same people. Judaism comes from religions in the area. No one was there before anyone else, because they’re the same people. Canaanites is just a made up term that the jews used to refer to everyone else, so they could tell stories about how they were better, but they’re all literally the same people. Jews didn’t magically appear as a distinct group. Israelites of the time literally are Canaanites.
Anyway, those are not the people moving there. They’re European Jews mostly. Sure, they share some genes with those early people, but far less than the people who literally still lived there. If you want to argue they have some cultural claim somehow, then what they hell do you even measure? They’re all coming from literally the same group of people and the same culture. If your claim is that the term “Jew” is older than the term “Muslim” then I guess you can make that argument, but it’d be a really dumb one.
Muslims are literally from the same group. They follow the same god and have the same holy book (with some new ones). El (hence Elohim, which interestingly is plural) is also the god they both come from, which is where the name Israel comes from, being the land of the people who follow El. They all follow (what was formerly known as) El, although it’s been mixed with other local gods too. Notably neither Jews nor Muslims follow what could be reasonably identified as El, so neither of them have any nominal claim to Israel. Maybe there are still some small local groups who do, in which case Israel, by name, is theirs.
again, you’re rambling. is your point that everyone is one people? because im not sure anyone would agree with that. how you can claim that two religions whose inceptions are thousands of years apart are the same just because the same god was coopted for the later religions, or ignore the differing cultures etc. but whatever, you do you.
Ah, yes. Giving historical context is rambling.
is your point that everyone is one people?
No? You said Jews have some kind of claim over the land. If they do, the native people have an even stronger one. Everyone isn’t one people. The people in the region are from one group (which we often call the Canaanites), which the Jews of the period are also a part of. None of them have any special claim to the land. Just because someone’s super special book tells them that they are chosen by the super cool guy in the sky doesn’t actually give them any legitimate claim. If you want to discuss it with people who don’t believe in fairy tales, you need something stronger. Since they’re the same group of people they all have equal historic claim.
how you can claim that two religions whose inceptions are thousands of years apart…
OK, you apparently don’t know anything about Islam or Christianity. That’s fine. They aren’t incepted thousands of years apart. They’re the same continuity. The prophets in the Jewish faith are also in the Christian faith, plus some extras. The prophets in the Christian faith are also in the Muslim faith, plus some extras. They’re from the same inception. Jews just don’t believe all the stuff of the other faiths past a certain point.
For example, if you stop following Marvel movies after Iron Man 2 or something, but someone else follows ones that came after, it doesn’t mean their understanding was incepted later. They just kept adding stuff. They’re all Marvel movies. They don’t become not Marvel movies because you stopped watching.
… or ignore the differing cultures…
That’s exactly my point. The Jewish culture has diverged from the one they had when living in that region, as has the people who still live their. How do the Jewish people have a stronger claim despite their culture diverging when they didn’t even live there anymore? If it’s a claim by culture, the people who still live there have a stronger claim.
… but whatever, you do you.
You don’t get to just spread lies and propoganda, then say “whatever” when it’s pointed out you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. Try to educate yourself. Maybe you can not make the same mistake again, instead of just saying “whatever” as if you weren’t wrong. Growth is a virtue, not a vice. You need to be able to admit mistake in order to grow.
Blaming Israel’s current shittiness on some lines we drew in the sand 70 odd years ago is a bit weak mate.
We aren’t telling them to torture kids or bomb civilians, they’re doing that all on their own.
To be fair, they were doing it when those lines were drawn (in a different location, because they expanded their territory through war) too. The lines just gave them legitimacy. They started colonizing before the lines were made, and we’re in conflict fighting the locals then. It obviously wasn’t the scale it is today, but the whole project is propagated through conflict.