Mastodawn

Sir David Nielsen 1d ago

FULL-FIFO DEVELOPER 🇺🇦🇨🇿

fedi: *oh no the fascist california law will make linux illegal unless you insert your id into a floppy drive, enable secure boot and sign away your soul via tpm*
systemd: *just adds an optional field for birth date*
fedi: *oh you microslop conspiracy nazi scum*

@lkundrak
Systemd still has too much power. An init system should not have the ability to do this.

FULL-FIFO DEVELOPER 🇺🇦🇨🇿1d ago

@ozzelot if you believe this went into an init system, i strongly suggest you refresh your familiarity with what systemd is

@lkundrak @ozzelot as much as i hate the "hurr durr everything systemd touches turns to shit" takes, the "ackshually it's not in the init" response is always stupid because that's not the part that matters

the part that matters is that it's all a single repo and building/using the components separately is a massive pain in the ass because it's all a single build system with a billion options

@lkundrak @ozzelot and don't get me started on the massive kitchensink mess that libbasic/libshared is

FULL-FIFO DEVELOPER 🇺🇦🇨🇿1d ago

@q66 @ozzelot > "ackshually it's not in the init" response is always stupid because that's not the part that matters

i do believe it sounds stupid to those regularly concerned about running parts of the systemd behemoth without the systemd's init itself, but i think you might be biased in that aspect. i have zero opinions about portability, and if i had they would be inferior to yours.

however i mostly recall hearing "omg this doesn't belong in init" from non-tech people who are uninformed and genuinely concerned about the project architecture, assume no security boundaries or options to turn features on and off. this time around it's the same.

@lkundrak
From the point of view of many lowly users, myself included, systemd is that weird thing that replaced our old init systems in mainstream distros :)

FULL-FIFO DEVELOPER 🇺🇦🇨🇿1d ago

@ozzelot in broader sense, systemd is a collection of core libraries & daemons. close enough to a classic unix/bsd tree with some bits missing.

service management is only one of the components. adds a handful of really clever tricks, alone more elegant and powerful than the old system.

calling it "init" is sounds somewhat inappropriate to me nowadays that the system is dynamic to the point everything in the system down to the hardware devices can come and go -- initialization not really separate from system run.

FULL-FIFO DEVELOPER 🇺🇦🇨🇿1d ago

@ozzelot i must say, that through the magic of adhd i unfortunately read through the sources of init systems from v4 through pwb, sysv and bsd. i'm happy to bore you to death with useless trivia over a beer.

@lkundrak If I still consumed beer, and general socialization, I would perhaps take you up.

innocentzero 16h ago

@lkundrak @ozzelot I loved Benno Rice's talk on 'The Tragedy of Systemd' and the notion of a system layer between kernel and application. I think that fits systemd best.

Vadim Rutkovsky 1d ago

@ozzelot @lkundrak what kind of powers does it have - immortality, telekinesis, power of attorney?

FULL-FIFO DEVELOPER 🇺🇦🇨🇿1d ago

@vadim @ozzelot i can confirm that ever since the recent gnome + systemd combo update broke poweroff for me, my system gets more power than normal

Vadim Rutkovsky 1d ago

@lkundrak @ozzelot they keep releasing new systemds, but you, a pile of flesh, are you improving too? I don't think so

@vadim
They keep releasing new piles of flesh.
@lkundrak

@lkundrak fedi != reality it turns out

FULL-FIFO DEVELOPER 🇺🇦🇨🇿1d ago

@ljs what!

@lkundrak I know, shocking!!

Cat Poníčková 1d ago

@lkundrak also like that part of fedi *wants* to feel illegal, so they should be happy?

FULL-FIFO DEVELOPER 🇺🇦🇨🇿1d ago

@poni seen this when the "do crimes" crowd turned unhappy about hate crime uptick

@poni @lkundrak nah the cunt making these MRs deserves 10x the hatred he is getting. had no prior systemd contributions. once this is here it will expand to remote attestation tied to some service like persona or the EU's eventual state-run analogue; that is what it is clearing the way for

@poni @lkundrak once you cuck you pay forever

FULL-FIFO DEVELOPER 🇺🇦🇨🇿1d ago

@slowfallinward @poni not sure if you realize this toot says more about yourself than about anybody else

boosted for extra embarrassment

@lkundrak @poni i stand by its content and the future will prove me correct

FULL-FIFO DEVELOPER 🇺🇦🇨🇿1d ago

@slowfallinward @poni never accused you of being able to reflect

Vadim Rutkovsky 1d ago

@slowfallinward @poni @lkundrak nothing says professional and visionary like the hate towards new contributors

@vadim @poni @lkundrak i'm not a systemd maintainer, but i'd be happy to see 0 contributors anywhere emboldened to submit such things (though, unsure he would have cared...)

Vadim Rutkovsky 1d ago

@slowfallinward @poni @lkundrak why are you telling _me_ this? Go tell that to systemd maintainers if you care about the project at least a little

@vadim @poni @lkundrak well, you popped up. good point though (although their response so far was "this got linked somewhere let's lock replies")

@vadim @lkundrak @poni like with turning off secure boot (which some absolute idiot in another post claimed was a foolproof enforcement mechanism for the CA law somehow) I can switch init on the 2/6 systems I have left using systemd for the moment, but the huge mass of delusional people who believe this choice or the law upstream of it is *compelling* them to do something is how we got here

@vadim @slowfallinward @poni @lkundrak the hate isn't toward "new contributors" it's toward what they're """contributing""". don't be disingenuous

@a @poni @vadim @lkundrak expel poettering if it stops this shit, honestly

FULL-FIFO DEVELOPER 🇺🇦🇨🇿1d ago

@slowfallinward @poni @a @vadim oh fuck off

@lkundrak @poni @a @vadim nty

Vadim Rutkovsky 1d ago

@lkundrak systemd, my beloved, we've been married for 30 years and you deserve to know the truth - I was not in fact born on January 1 1970

Cat Poníčková 1d ago

@vadim @lkundrak must be weird to have actually been born on january 1 1970

Vadim Rutkovsky 1d ago

@poni @lkundrak "unix" is a cool hip Gen X name

@lkundrak wearing a swastika patch doesn’t kill anyone per se, and yet we don’t do and dont permit it for a reason.

sometimes rising against a simple json field is an important political stance, as is making fun of those who do.

FULL-FIFO DEVELOPER 🇺🇦🇨🇿1d ago

@tivasyk > making fun

wildly different definitions of fun then

@lkundrak i’m real sorry if i have misunderstood the initial post; this happens to me sometimes :-/

the point stands: this is important unrelated to our opinions on systemd as a technological solution.

Christian Brauner 🦊🐺1d ago

@lkundrak ok ok, that warrants a follow.

FULL-FIFO DEVELOPER 🇺🇦🇨🇿1d ago

@brauner sorry to hear.

that is just the first stage. then come regrets and mute.

Fernando F. Mancera 1d ago

@lkundrak @brauner no sir, second step is to praise satan!

@ffmancera @lkundrak @brauner then regret + mute