Matthew Slowe
Neil BrownI am quite keen on the idea of an electric car.
I am less keen on the idea of a car which spies on me.
I have an electric bicycle, which I love, and use as often as I can. But I am looking here for a car.
I kind of like the old Nissan Leaf, and it might *just* fit the bill, range wise. But I've also read various concerns. So I umm and aaah about them.
Newer electric cars leave me with a sense of "nice car you got there. Shame if we changed something about it or spied on you".
I am not a car person.
I drive, but I don't enjoy driving particularly. It is a means to an end for me.
I much prefer to take a train but, sometimes, is either not possible, or else does not make sense (generally, time or money-wise).
Michael Kohne@neil I very much wish I was in a tax bracket where I could afford to have someone do an electric conversion of an older vehicle. Though now I wonder if there are services out there that mod your car to cut it off from the mothership and put it more under your control?
poleguy looking for lost tools
Olivier Mehani
Alanna π³οΈβππ³οΈββ§οΈ@neil and the price of an electric car that would replace my current diesel is a huge reason I won't be able to change right now.
The Penguin of Evil@etchedpixels @neil last time I looked something that would replace my Diesel is well over β¬25k even second hand.
Molly@mollysdailykiss @signs I quite like the i3!
signs@mollysdailykiss @neil always happy to offer any insights :-)
Robee? Na! π@neil I have a hybrid, but I also have a driveway and my own charger, I think a key factor for me is being able to charge it on my own tariff rather than pay the much higher amount for a public one. I think it costs me 60p to charge it all the way, well okay its range is 20 miles for that but that ticks off most of my journeys here.
Tom Dewar@RobeeShepherd @neil I think public charging costs track more closely to the price of petrol than the price of electricity, so, if switching to save money it only makes sense if you can charge at home (or work). Edit: even more so if you have home solar, obv.
Geoff Mackenzie@neil I'm lucky in that I have almost no need of a car. My current car is an old diesel, which is not ideal, but it moves very rarely (walk/bike/public transport covers almost everything I want to do) and seems likely to be the last car I own. At my rate of car use, renting one a few times a year would make more sense.
I did consider a cheap small electric car and might end up getting one if my needs change. The Dacia Spring is pretty basic and not very surveillance encumbered, I believe; not luxurious or exciting but maybe worth a look? The VW e-up looks quite nice too, not sure how creepy it is though
Missingtale@neil if you need a car (as we do living in a reasonably populated area with almost no public transport. aka outside London) an electric car makes a lot of sense if you can charge at home.
Second hand ev's seem good value at the minute and I think they actually last better than liquid fuel equivalents.
Early leafs do have very little range and the early leaf and Zoe are showing signs that the charge port is the weakest link and expensive to replace. Good luck.
Second hand ev's seem good value at the minute and I think they actually last better than liquid fuel equivalents.
Early leafs do have very little range and the early leaf and Zoe are showing signs that the charge port is the weakest link and expensive to replace. Good luck.
DianeThere's apparently a bunch of companies that do EV conversions of older cars in Britain.
https://insideevs.com/features/735220/uk-ev-conversion-industry/
I've seen videos of EV conversions where the car instrumentation is all analog.
@alienghic I doubt that my budget stretches to that!
andybrwn@neil My wife got a used 2022 mustang mach e. It was cheaper than my toyota rav4, and a much better value, not including the cost of gas.
As for spying from the govmn't. You can disable a lot of that garbage on this car, set things to not auto update, opt-out, etc.
If you are very concerned you can pull the antenna to prevent any spying/changing of stuff.
Maybe also consider the honda that was out of my budget.
I kept my old accord and am starting an ev conversion.
NickApparently some of the older Nissan Leaf models are losing their connectivity options, which has caused some discontent.
But that may be exactly what you're looking for. Plus it probably reduces their second hand value.
Jack@[email protected] @[email protected] I kind of want a first or second generation BMW i3 but the range is just a little too short without a battery upgrade, and then the price point isn't fantastic anymore. Also dreaming of the Slate truck despite its rumored ties to Bezos/Amazon. Amish EV for me.
Peter McDonald@neil A elderly friend tried to do the right thing a few years ago and bought a old Leaf that had come off of a lease. Unfortunately the usable battery range was less than 40 MI, and the closest dealer for service was 50+ miles away with no charging point between. After a few strandings and several long distance tows, he wound up having to sell it. Due diligence would have saved a bit of a disaster.
@pmcdonald Ouch :(
Colin H.@neil @pmcdonald Interesting two part video here about a similar-ish situation.
Dead battery! Can we resurrect this 30kWh Nissan LEAF? Part 1
Wendy M. Grossman
Chip Butty
woe2you
Advanced Persistent Teapot@neil exactly how I feel
Adam
Ingo
John Faithfull ππͺπΊπ΄σ §σ ’σ ³σ £σ ΄σ Ώπ§‘βπ»βπΏ@neil This. I don't think it's restricted to EVs though. I disabled manufacturers network access, and never link car to phone. Don't know how effective this though.... βΉοΈπ‘
Stephen Borrill
@sborrill Thanks. I would need to find out which features require an Internet connection!
artfulrobot@artfulrobot @sborrill Mostly eSIMs these days, I think.
πΊπ¦ haxadecimal π«π@etchedpixels @neil @artfulrobot @sborrill
The last car I purchased, in 2021, doesn't appear to have any "telematics" or any kind of data uplink. It has GPS and sat radio receivers, but AFAICT, no transmitters other than NFC for the key fob.
Since I just ordered a spectrum analyzer, I could maybe try to find any other transmissions it might make, though if they were very brief and infrequent, I might not be able to detect them.
The last car I purchased, in 2021, doesn't appear to have any "telematics" or any kind of data uplink. It has GPS and sat radio receivers, but AFAICT, no transmitters other than NFC for the key fob.
Since I just ordered a spectrum analyzer, I could maybe try to find any other transmissions it might make, though if they were very brief and infrequent, I might not be able to detect them.
@etchedpixels @neil @artfulrobot @sborrill
I think if it did have any two-way communication, they'd have tried to sell me optional services that use them, but none were offered.
I think if it did have any two-way communication, they'd have tried to sell me optional services that use them, but none were offered.
@etchedpixels @neil @artfulrobot @sborrill
I've owned two 2006 model year vehicles with OnStar, and physically disconnected the OnStar boxes in both, though it became irrelevant when AMPS cellular went away.
People need to be aware that vehicle telematics systems can be used to spy on them even if they aren't paying for service.
Also, even without that, the "black box" functionality in cars records a lot about their driving. I'm not sure whether any record GPS data, but it wouldn't surprise me
I've owned two 2006 model year vehicles with OnStar, and physically disconnected the OnStar boxes in both, though it became irrelevant when AMPS cellular went away.
People need to be aware that vehicle telematics systems can be used to spy on them even if they aren't paying for service.
Also, even without that, the "black box" functionality in cars records a lot about their driving. I'm not sure whether any record GPS data, but it wouldn't surprise me
@neil To get the best from Octopus Intelligent Go, you need to grant access to Octopus to query the car's battery level. I send sat nav destinations to it. It's handy to send pre-heating schedules to it. But you can work around all these from the car itself or doing percentage calculations yourself
@sborrill Thanks! I was wondering about daft things like the windows not opening!
Mark β΅οΈπ³οΈβπ@neil I just want a simple analogue electric carβ¦ with knobs not screens. If I had the money Iβd look at getting a classic car converted but itβs far from affordable π
nabeards@not_a_label @neil just curious what you consider affordable? I've looked into converting my 1988 Suzuki Samurai to electric, looks like it'll be about $12,000. The car cost me $5000 six years ago, so $17,000 for an electric car seems like a good price.
For comparison to something similar here, the BYD S1 Pro starts at $30,000.
Joshua Barretto@nabeards @not_a_label @neil Out of interest, where are you getting those numbers from? Here in the UK Β£10k seems about the minimum for the draw conversion kits themselves, entirely ignoring fitting/equipment/labour costs.
@jsbarretto @not_a_label @neil a mechanic here in CR that does these conversions π
Itβs possible prices are fluctuating rapidly with the state of the world, this was about four months ago.
@jsbarretto @not_a_label @neil another difference may be the needed travel distance. Mine is pretty short here, around 100 KM per charge.
Andy Gates@nabeards @not_a_label @neil And while you end up with an electric classic, you also end up with old safety standards and survivability.
@andygates @not_a_label @neil again, dependent on your needs. I travel usually at 30MPH, fastest is 45mph. I spend a lot of time on dirt roads as well. The safety advances seem to be focused on high speed travel. Of course, everyoneβs needs are different. But even a car from 2005 would have better safety than my 1988. And you can buy cars from 2005 for US $5000 still.
Joshua Dunham@neil Buy an older EV like a Nissan Leaf. My car doesn't spy on me because it doesn't have all the "software" the new EVs have.
Richard IbbotsonTesla love to spy on anyone. BYD. ? Don't know. Their latest does 600 miles on one charge. 250 miles on a 5 minute recharge.
Root Moose@neil There's the rub...
I've been a "car phreak" since I was old enough to walk. I own like a dozen cars... half of them are even on the road and drivable.
I used to like all cars. Nowadays, I have zero interest in pretty much anything post ~2010 due to the complexity of trying to maintain it and more and more due to the invasive software and policies in cars newer than around that age.
Some makes and models are better than others. Would I buy a new BMW? LOL, are you serious? Would I buy a new MX-5... Maybe.
On the electric car front it seems like Hyundai/Kia have the best "normal" electric options in my market (Canada). Would I buy one... maybe... if I had to... I'm more inclined to find a good value used car regardless of propulsion I think.
I'd really like something electric as a new (to me) car when the time comes. Not sure I can do it given the software.
If I lived in the UK I'd probably be all over the Renault 5 / Alpine A290 twins as a daily struggle car. In my market we are stuck with the punitive auto industry BS from the south. It may change but ... we'll see. I have no idea what those cars are like from software or policy though. Maybe I'd walk out of the showroom.