AI6YR BenHmm, I am curious how many wheelchair users are asking for AI- and drone-enabled wheelchairs.
IEEE: AI Aims for Autonomous Wheelchair Navigation
New chairs track obstacles while drones map the room
Econproph
AprazethAs someone whom had to support and push their own wheelchair bound mom around (my early/pre-puberty, so pre 2000) I think I am somewhat familiar with how things work and don't.
This? This is shit. What is needed is accessibility applied to places so fancy, expensive, and often fragile, proprietary tech isn't needed.
It is creating yet another dependence on external factors.
Are there cases where this tech might help? Maybe. But let us focus on making places accessible firstly.
Ask the community what they want and need rather then what some souped up washed out coked up techbro has sharted out.
Money and attention that could really help people is now being funneled into some hustle project that will benefit few to none other then th
But nooooo let's not attempt to fix society in a meaningful way when we can extract more money and inflict indignity upon others.
... Yes, this pissed me off.
I have had to help my mom in situations that were beyond appalling. Having to run inside to the front desk to get the keys for the wheelchair elevator while she had to wait in the soaking rain. Doors that can't be operated from a wheelchair, curbs, thresholds, single accessibility toilet at the other end of the building...
But yes, let's create a fancy new gizmo that drives on it's own and creates a dependence on the manufacturer and whether or not they support it in the future. Because if it breaks, what then?
If they want to do something; make electric wheel chairs affordable, safer, repairable, and maintainable. But there is not enough money to be made there, so... Guess which option they'll pick.
OK, I will stop but ooh I am seething right now.
@Aprazeth I appreciate your experience and thoughts here, I wish more of the technology developers would consider these things!
Phil Stevens 
Agree with all, par the logging of defects using a website.
Talk to them. You know, like they are people. Because they are. Not users, people.
Shakedown tests and users terminology makes it sound like an app. It isn't. This is about life, and living. Being part of society, and being able to do so without having to rely on the benevolence of others.
Because this isn't about technology.
It is about dignity.
@Aprazeth @ai6yr It would only be viable if it was an actual job, with decent pay, for someone who wanted to do it.
Our council has something like this where people can upload a geolocated photo of a problem and have it forwarded to the relevant department. It gets a lot of tripping hazards and overgrown vegetation blocking footpath access. The obvious enhancement to this would be paying someone to traverse a given area and note all the issues, because even if it was designed properly you still have to do maintenance and deal with extrinsic events.
@phil_stevens @Aprazeth Alas, cities here in California have started to pay robotics/AI companies to "map" sidewalks for hazards.
@phil_stevens @Aprazeth I absolutely agree. I wonder if these folks even have any folks who would be users working at the company.
City of Irvine: "Robots Help Map Accessibility in Irvine"
https://cityofirvine.org/news-media/news-article/robots-help-map-accessibility-irvine
Let me guess, after it is all mapped, they will be out of budget so they can't fix anything.
... Sigh. I wish I was wrong about this.
Ah true. And to that I say: streetsweepers. They roam around anyway, and can report/fix as needed.
In the Netherlands we actually have such a system (some municipalities at least) Take a pic and upload it to the municipality website, and they fix it. Ranges from trash, broken tiles/pavement, light posts etc. I have reported stuff for tripping hazards and usually 2 or 3 weeks later it is fixed (I do live in a smaller city, well village really )
KristinJI love this idea for the batteries!
Standardized equipment with mandated interoperability, with open design specs.
NilaJones@Aprazeth @KristinJordheim @ai6yr @me_valentijn @ml
IMO, the biggest problem in the wheelchair industry is that the customer is considered to be the insurance company, not the end user. And in the US, that usually means Medicaid
This is why we get absurdly expensive wheelchairs that don't do what the user needs
And ridiculous rules, like wheelchairs must be designed for indoor use only, or they cannot be covered by insurance
One night in an unheated garage kills the circuit board of an electric wheelchair. Being away from room temperature that long, it gets condensation. And the board is not waterproof, because indoor only
@ai6yr @NilaJones @KristinJordheim @me_valentijn @ml
Yeah, that is an apt response.
And that isn't just for the USA.
It is not uncommon for a defect to take weeks to months to get repaired, basically stranding the owner in their own home if they have no other means of transport. Better not try to fix it yourself or have another mechanic check it because woops, no more warranty for you.
Luna Dragofelis ΘΔ🏳️⚧️🐱@NilaJones @Aprazeth @KristinJordheim @ai6yr @me_valentijn @ml for indoor use only? do they not expect wheelchair users to ever leave the house?
@LunaDragofelis @ml @ai6yr @me_valentijn @KristinJordheim @NilaJones
Probably, and this is pure speculation on my side, due to regulations for any vehicle operated on the road being vastly different. As in, it would need brakelights, maybe a license plate or something? In what category vehicle would it fall? Etc. Etc.
@Aprazeth @LunaDragofelis @ml @ai6yr @me_valentijn @KristinJordheim
No, wheelchairs are operated on the sidewalk. They don't require any type of light, etc, that isn't required of a person walking in the daytime
I hope so as well. It has been many years since, things have improved in general in terms of accessibility. And yet, so so much still needs to be done.
Apologies for the rant. It is something I genuinely feel very deeply on a personal level (as you can tell) Thanks for hearing me out 🩵
@Aprazeth @ai6yr
No apologies needed, Aprazeth! Rather, I thank you 💙 for it. Amen!
I would add in solidarity, not in criticism, that there are multiple disabilities and accessibility needs. I too am tired of some tech bro thinking if some magic AI driven wheelchair exists or some flying drone, then accessibility is solved. Besides the mobility issues you cited, others exist. I'm visually impaired. Those drones & AI will ensure I trip, fall down a step/ uneven floor and get a concussion.
🩵 absolutely agree
Thank you for sharing and expanding upon this! There are indeed so so many more needs that can and should be addressed!
rand@Aprazeth @ai6yr I was waiting at a light yesterday (on my bike) and watched as a woman on a scooter had to navigate around the curb cutout to get to the beg button. Then she had to reverse course so that she could use the curb cutout to cross the street. And I complain that I can’t get to the buttons from my bike on the street without getting onto the sidewalk. Our accommodations, when they exist are messed up.
Absolutely. That is the thing; proper bicycle/pedestrian infrastructure will benefit everyone.
Equalized crossings (as in, no curb) are easier for everyone; wheelchair, strollers, people using canes etc.
The curb cutting effect, as I believe it is called.
Next time someone is advocating for pedestrian or bicycle infrastructure, mention that it benefits people in wheelchairs, and/or mobility scooters as well.
Might just wake some politicians up to these plights.
I distinctly remember pushing my mom in a wheelchair in the bicycle lane because of that exact reason: curbs at the traffic lights. Recent adjustments in the Netherlands now usually mean equalized crossings, and as maintenance or new roads are built, this gets put into place.
Politicians tend to complain about cost, and that's the thing. As soon as maintenance is being done on a road or crossing, install it at that point. Negates a LOT of the so called costs or impact.
Once you know about these things and become aware of them - you'll notice them everywhere.
People noticing and sharing their experiences and observations is a good thing. Awareness leads to action, hopefully.
So, thank you 🩵
... Sorry for the longer reply (this is something I feel very deeply about as very evident by now. Sorry again)
@Aprazeth @ai6yr No apology needed! Thank you for your insights.
One thing about curb cuts around here (SF Bay Area), is the inconsistency of where they are added in relation to direction of travel. The example I saw yesterday was a single curb cut at the apex of the corner.
So assuming an expected direction of travel, e.g. a continuous line from one sidewalk across the street to the side walk on the other side. The curb cut is not in that line. You fallow the sidewalk, arrive at the corner, make a 45 degree turn to enter the street, turn back to the sidewalk, cross the street and repeat the process to get back on the sidewalk. Some corners have two cuts, perhaps in line with the sidewalk, but then the crosswalk is ½ in line, it is often set back away from the intersection. This is confusing to pedestrians who don't have to deal with a disability. I'm sure there is a reason for this meandering across the street, but it drives me nuts.
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@Aprazeth @ai6yr And in this case, the woman had to go left at the corner to reach the signal pole that had the button on it. And then back up to access the curb cut that was angled to the right. While much better than finding a driveway somewhere down the street, it is still not ideal. I think that designers of this infrastructure should have to navigate them in person. But they are just being added to comply with laws, not for actually helping people.
Oh and sometimes the added curb cuts have to work around a storm drain that was placed right where you might want to add the cut.
Observing these things is something I have been doing since my first "real" job working for a woman who had to get around in a motorized chair. Going a few blocks to lunch was often an eye opener.
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Morgan ⚧️@Aprazeth @ai6yr as a(n ambulatory) wheelchair user myself, I agree wholeheartedly. Tech like this is designed for one thing: gatekeeping accessibility for the rich. There's no way in hell I'll ever be able to afford something like this, especially because in the meantime, my work opportunities are limited by inaccessible infrastructure!