Mastodawn

myrmepropagandist

I really wish there was a more sophisticated way to share moderation examples. Eg. individuals and servers could "trust" each other and then automatically share lists of reported domains and users *including* the offending posts and comments about context.

Right now the software offers to let your report a user to their home server and this is almost always a terrible idea since their whole server is probably terrible and it just makes more slur filled posts show up.

I have experienced a moderate amount of this nonsense, I don't think the fedi is worse than other online spaces but... shouldn't we strive to be better? Not just "good enough?"

I don't want to report a user to their home server. I want to report them to a list of 100 servers that I trust who would also quickly and quietly block them limiting their reach.

And I want to be able to decide who I trust with that information. The needlessly controversial #fediblock tag was created because we don't have a tool like this.

Using public hastags to do this is obviously inferior. But users adapt to system that can't be bother to adapt to their needs.

Furbland's Very Cool Mastodon™4d ago

@futurebird @dave IIRC @gabboman is working on developing a protocol like what you're talking about

gabboman the wafrn dev 4d ago

Mastodon team has a “we should do something” about this, and they have started thinking about it long ago. Before wafrn even existed!

There are some important steps that need to be taken first and yatayatayata, but yes, this is one of the moderation failures of fedi

Furbland's Very Cool Mastodon™4d ago

@gabboman @futurebird @dave yeah, i can see how it would be super hard to put together something like this. i think mastodon should get it out sooner rather than later, but at the same time i absolutely do not fault them for taking as much time as they need to ensure this is implemented well and justifiably

gabboman the wafrn dev 4d ago

I also have the reply control thing (GTS spec + one expansion for “ask op of thread not me) but until everyone uses it its just a glorified mute

#And-i-still-need-to-do-some-extra-parts

Meljoann 4d ago

@futurebird this is such a good idea! It would be incredible to have reports dealt with so sensibly. Coupled with blocklist subscriptions… frickin game-changer. @andypiper have you seen this?

@futurebird @dave the big challenge is to design it to limit the extent to which any shared moderation decision list becomes a tool for harassment and control and silencing communities

Furbland's Very Cool Mastodon™4d ago

@ireneista @futurebird @dave exactly. i'm on some fuckass bluesky blocklist for a reason i still am not entirely sure of :P

@GroupNebula563 @ireneista @dave

This is why I refused to simply adopt long block lists where I couldn't look up why the names were on the list. Most of those lists were well-intentioned and probably useful for cutting down the volume of spammy slur fill garbage, but they were also often imprecise. I don't judge anyone for using them since there isn't a better system.

My home server sauropods.win is on such a list because we didn't want to just block everyone on the shared spreadsheet.

Dawn Ahukanna 4d ago

@futurebird
Those block list have the same “vibe” as credit check agencies.
They delegate “decision making” responsibilities to some anonymous delegate without evidence, only authority - “do it because I said so!”
@GroupNebula563 @ireneista @dave

@futurebird @dave we have thoughts on how to do that, but it's not an easy problem

@ireneista @dave

There isn't a simple technology silver bullet here. It's about servers and people having a reputation for making good moderation calls and being reasonable.

Certain servers and groups would develop a reputation for quality and they would have the most subscribers to their block lists.

And there is the need for different levels of moderation to meet different needs.

@futurebird @dave oh absolutely. even so, though, the medium is the message... the affordances of the technology do end up steering the cultural patterns that grow around it, at least somewhat. so we do think it makes sense to think about ways in which some technologies are structurally antisocial, while others are less so

@futurebird @dave in particular some of these things are better than others at spreading malicious gossip and silencing anyone who questions it

✨pencilears✨4d ago

@futurebird @dave I think there's a website for this? My admin/wife was double checking some site the last time we were getting waves of harassment. (I'll have to ask in the morning, it's 2 am here right now)

Tbh, every time it feels like the same exact people.

I think there's less than ten dorks from 4chan/KF actually actively harassing people on fedi at any given moment, it just feels like there's more because they server hop and run a lot of sock-puppets

@pencilears @dave

"Tbh, every time it feels like the same exact people."

LOL yes. There are like three guys who show up whenever I say anything about racism and start up with me, they get new servers and new usernames from time to time, but they just seem like the same people who I think search for words like "racism" then attack anyone who seems like they aren't white. It's really boring. I would see them less often if we had more thoughtful tools I think.

✨pencilears✨4d ago

@futurebird @dave

It's so annoying!

And like, it's such a relic of the unmoderated internet. I haven't had to deal with some jackass calling me names and sending me gore for being queer and watching My Little Pony on ~the corporate web~ for like a decade now.

Thankfully, my admin team (literally my wife) has been good about defederating from problem instances, and she's quick to react to my reports (because I whine at her from across the room)

@pencilears @futurebird @dave that's plausible. we've thought in the past about trying to measure how many asshole-hours they have per week, but don't have a good methodology.