Dave Alvarado1d ago

How (racist/sexist/whatever) harassment on Mastodon works:

1. Harasser replies to their target's post, with the reply set to "followers only", saying the most vile stuff you can imagine.

2. All the harasser's followers join in on the harassment, posting more vile stuff.

3. Nobody but the target and the harassment crew can see the vile stuff that was said.

4. Target is traumatized. Nobody else can see why.

5. Everybody says "I don't see it so it's not happening."

https://community.hachyderm.io/blog/2024/08/12/hachyderms-introduction-to-mastodon-moderation-part-1/

Hachyderm's Introduction to Mastodon Moderation: Part 1

The first post in a series about Mastodon moderation tooling. This post focuses on context for the upcoming posts.

Hachyderm Community
Show threadDave Alvarado1d ago
If you're a white person on the Fediverse and you've never seen someone called a slur, or threats made against them--congratulations! You don't follow any dirtbags. But, it's happening every day and it's being hidden from you.
Show threadDave Alvarado1d ago

"But Dave, why don't they moderate?"

They do. The harassers spin up new instances to get around block lists.

"But Dave, why don't they show the receipts?"

The brave ones do, when they have the energy. It invites a huge amount more harassment, so showing receipts *always* causes psychological damage.

Some folks are willing to tank that damage to get the word out. Most people understandably just want it to stop.

Show threadDave Alvarado

Addendum to this (thanks @flippac !): the receipts a victim of harassment could show won't help stop anything, it's all sock puppet accounts. The most information they can share is "see look, this *happens*. It happened to *me*."

Which, let's be honest, isn't that useful in the white supremacist patriarchal world we live in. A few new people will learn to believe the victims of harassment. That's not much return on investment when the cost is needing more therapy.

Mar 19 at 10:50pmWeb
Show threadDave Alvarado1d ago

Last post I'm going to make in this thread. If you want more visibility into this underside of the Fediverse, follow the #fediblock hashtag (and send some mental thanks and good vibes to MarciaX while you're at it, you're benefiting from the work of a Black woman).

If you want to do something about this, I know of two things anyone can do:

1. Open or comment on issues at https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues

2. Share this info. Steal my posts in good health, or write this issue up in your own words.

Show threadDaniel Appelquist12h ago
@dave Thank you for sharing this. There are a lot of open issues marked with the "moderation" https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen%20label%3Amoderation (many of them also marked as "suggestion"). Do you have any suggestions of which of these proposals (if any) would help to mitigate the issues you're describing? Is there anything that should be done at the ActivityPub level? https://github.com/w3c/activitypub/issues
Show threadElischeva11h ago

@dave

The harrassers didn't know, that I have a loose block-Finger. I blocked already some of them.

And des, I already know the Hashtags #fediblock for getting Info on Accounts to block. Also my admins are eager to block any of such bullshit for the whole instance.

Show threadLight1d ago
@dave
>The most information they can share is "see look, this *happens*.  It happened to *me*."
That's the value of receipts
Show threadTzimisce Flesh1d ago
@dave @flippac I am not accusing anyone nor denying the harassment, but it's also worth keeping in mind that screenshots don't really prove anything, especially given how the accounts are sockpuppets.
If one is inclined to believe you, they'll probably believe you when you just say you were harassed. If one's inclined to accuse you of lying, they can easily dismiss screenshots as fabricated.
So the people who "need more proof" are generally not people who are gonna be convinced by it anyway.
Show threadDave Alvarado1d ago
@flesh @flippac I agree, and generally when people are posting screenshots it's in response to "I don't see it so I don't believe it's happening". it's not to accuse a particular sock puppet.
Show threadWoozle Hypertwin1d ago

@dave

Would this change (in the code/design) be helpful, do you think: for posts that are in reply to something, give the original poster the ability to {reveal publicly, if non-public} and/or {completely delete, for everyone} those replies.

Maybe someone has come up with a better idea, but that's what comes quickly to my mind.

@flippac

Show threadPhilippa Cowderoy1d ago
@woozle @dave "no followers only replies [except from my own followers as that's the closest thing we have to proper filters]" in the first place would be good
Show threadPhilippa Cowderoy1d ago

@woozle @dave (so: first of all, situations where somebody's doing it in good faith like when they'd happily set it to the other person's followers aren't subject to new misbehaviour...

...but also nobody wakes up to an immense volume of shit to shovel overnight)

Show threadWoozle Hypertwin1d ago

@flippac That sounds like an excellent suggestion.

I'm not sure where to poke to try and make this happen, but I'll keep my eyes open for opportunities.

@dave

Show threadDave Alvarado1d ago

@woozle if you go up to my OP, I added a new reply this morning that includes a link to the Mastodon github. That's the place to open an issue if you have a suggestion.

@flippac

Show threadeobet12h ago

@dave @woozle @flippac already suggested in 2023, but shot down by people who are not being harassed. 😑

https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/26937

Harassment: Followers-Only toots should NOT be visible to nonfollowers mentioned in the toot · Issue #26937 · mastodon/mastodon

Pitch FollowersOnly toots should NOT be visible to any non-follower mentioned in the toot, even if their handle is explicitly mentioned in the toot. Scenario : @[email protected] toots followers-on...

GitHub
Show threadWoozle Hypertwin9h ago

@eobet

I'm not sure that's the best solution either -- though I see no reason why it couldn't be a per-post or per-user option.

I'm sure that'd get shot down, too; there's been a lot of "not invented here" syndrome at Masto Central. Maybe now that it's under new(ish) leadership, they'll reconsider some of these decisions?

Failing that: one of these days, I will dig into the code...

@dave @flippac

Show threadeobet8h ago
@woozle @dave @flippac all I can do is to add my voice to that thread, so I did.
Show threadThe Bird16h ago

@dave

@flippac i shared ages ago how this happens with folks targeting trans and/or disabled folks and/ or BIPOC, and all it did was jumpstart more harassment and nothing changed. some servers still don't give a fuck so reporting doesn't work either.