Mastodawn

GraceTechNerd Mar 13

@BlazieTech i’m sorry… Are you saying you have to pay for each update once you already pay for the device? Was thinking about purchasing this device, but this is quite confusing.

Blazie Technologies 6d ago

@GraceTechNerd Hi, Grace.
The BT Speak includes a 90-day warranty which covers both hardware and software. Any software updates released during the warranty period are available for you to install. The warranty also allows you to receive an exchange BT Speak in the event that your unit encounters a hardware problem that we’re not able to resolve with a phone call.
You can extend this warranty by purchasing a maintenance contract for your BT Speak. Your maintenance contract can be renewed for either $20.00 per month or for $200.00 annually. The maintenance contract extends your warranty coverage by providing you with the same benefits that you receive with the initial 90-day warranty.
In other words, you can receive a product exchange in the event of a problem, in addition to software updates. Unlike other products, the maintenance contract is continually renewable. We don't limit you to just one or two years of coverage.
If you choose to not purchase a maintenance contract for your BT Speak, you have the option of paying $50.00 any time after the warranty period to receive the latest software update, regardless of how much time has elapsed.

CC: @[email protected] personally I find that very exploitative. if I bought the device, I should be able to receive updates, even if it's only for a few years.
I already bought the device, I shouldn't have to pay a sperate package just for updates.
and btw, the fact you couldn't just answer with a simple yes or no concerns me. I don't think she asked for corporate jargon, she asked a direct question. but i'll go ahead and translate it for you: yes, after the warranty, you absolutely have to pay for updates.
I was thinking about getting the BT speek, but now I will not.
thank you, next freedom scientific

Alex Chapman 6d ago

@averlice @GraceTechNerd @BlazieTech I second this, this is honestly not a great look, like this is not cool at all, we should be able to get software updates for free, not paying for a stupid contract.

CC: @[email protected] @[email protected] yup. in fact, you're adding like less of an assistive technology company and more like an enterprise/b2b (business to business) company right now. imagine if Google and apple were to do this? keep in mind their devices are only supported up to a few years. which means the minute they can't receive updates anymore, if they "forget" to cancel that warranty at all, they've just been scammed. and you expect me to pay what, $200/year or even so much as $20 a month just for, what, updates? fuck off!

@averlice @alexchapman @GraceTechNerd @BlazieTech I'm a bit confused. I have no dog in this fight at all, I wouldn't take the BTSpeak as a gift if I had to use it. Having said that, this is a small company. As you very rightly say, even Apple and Google only keep their stuff updated for a few years, and people complain about that. Smaller companies don't update at all or update for less than a year. How is an adaptive tech company, which is even smaller than a small phone brander/vendor, supposed to keep a $1500 device up to date and add new features without charging for those updates? As I said, I don't care about this device, I will never buy or use it. My difficulty is to understand what you're saying and get how a small company can expect to keep paying its devs and workers if no update fees are going to be charged?

GraceTechNerd 6d ago

@techsinger @averlice @alexchapman @BlazieTech You also have a great point. i just feel there are better ways then charging for each update. Like charging for extra add-ons like the voxin voices, warranty, or pro apps.

@GraceTechNerd @averlice @alexchapman @BlazieTech allot of people just wouldn't pay unless what was being offered was absolutely essential. Indeed, many people aren't paying for updates now because they argue the updates aren't essential. It's all well and good to produce high level programs in addition to free updates, but what do you do if people won't buy? I really do think the time for this sort of product has passed by, though I hope I'm wrong. Employees need to eat. I'm not sure how they can given the phones, the handheld gaming machines, and so on. The problem for me isn't the charging for updates, I don't know what else they could do. The problem is that the market is just too small.

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] there are a lot of open source software that accomplishes the "eat" part very well, without exploiting the user. how do you expect me to believe this is a good excuse? I really do not see how you justify charging for updates unless you are a b2b (business to business) model that only cells to enterprises and government agencies

@averlice @GraceTechNerd @alexchapman @BlazieTech With respect, I'm just lost. Could you name a piece of open source hardware, not software, which allows employees of the organization to "eat" with even a market slightly larger than blind users? This is not software we're dealing with, remember, it's hardware. Updates are only saleable to those who have purchased the hardware. The only people who would purchase the hardware are blind, and that is a tiny market. I'm trying to come up with any sort of open source software, let alone hardware, which allows employment of people while providing service to a market the size of blind users. The only thing I can come up with is NVDA, and as I said before, NVDA is a charity which is sponsored by many outside resources and companies. I don't see who has solved this problem for any item for the blind. If you could point one of them, one of the "allot" of projects you're thinking of, out, I would be grateful. I can see a few charities, a few personal passion projects which start up and disappear, but not much else. I can't even think of one business which is employing people and does this. Even the charities are on the borderline.

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] I can think of both even non blind software and hardware and blind hardware. NVDA is an example of blindness software, yes. i'm more of a cyber security guy, so I know a lot of cyber security projects, most of which being open source. also, what does it market it's in? there are several in the world that still allow employees to eat. and I don't think charging people for updates is one of them, regardless of what hardware/software it uses, unless you are an enterprise vender, or are celling the product in question to gogvernment/defense agencies. apple and Android offer screen reader software and never, have I ever noticed them charge users for updates . yes, they have extended update packs sometimes, as well as warranties, but those warranties often do not state updates as a feature because it's built-in to the device. if you do this with any software/hardware, I don't care if it's the greatest software/hardware the consumer ever owned, you are, effectively, exploiting your base. if you are making the argument that this was a good idea to make people charge for updates, please say that you will support it with consumer products (E.G. apple iphone, googles android). I think one who supports adding charges just to update the thing would also enjoy it if suddenly they had to pay for even the most basic of security updates on their mainstream devices too.

Kevin Karhan

6d ago

@averlice @techsinger @GraceTechNerd @alexchapman @BlazieTech Espechally when said updates are kinda necessary to retain usefulness.

it's not like your regular onetime purchase commercial closed source software where I can be shure that as long as I own a working copy I can use it in perpetuality.
- I.e. I have an Australian copy of Half Life 2 for the PS2 and that disc and the game will remain playable unless I were to damage it or not be able to obtain a system that can play it.

There's a saying re: #piracy and #Enshittification and I think this really matches here:

If buying isn't ownership, then piracy isn't theft!

Cuz I can understand if something that actually incurs continued costs (i.e. Hosting eMail, Websites, Domains, Broadband, providing actual Support) that it's being sold as a #subscription.

But it's not as if said solution comes with like 24/7 support and 2hr free remote help per year if it breaks to justify the cost.
- Nor does it come with expedited support and security compliance features like an Enterprise Linux disto.

We're talking about accessibility tech here, not something that has a shitload of infrastructure behind it once shipped.

Unlike a "Cloud-based POS System" that also includes a "certified to be tax-audit compliant bookkeeping and accounting system".

If monetization is a problem, then that needs to be thought about and addressed beforehand.

Whereas potentially bricking customers' potentially only way to communicate beyond their immediate vicinity is just cruel.

@kkarhan @averlice @GraceTechNerd @alexchapman @BlazieTech I'm confused. Again, I may be wrong because I don't have this device. How are the updates "necessary to retain usefulness". I've read the notes on these updates as they're released and am lost on how not having them makes the device unusable. The device continues to be usable whether you have the updates or not, doesn't it? The updates just add new ways in which it can be useful. How is it bricked, exactly, if that's what you're saying happens? The device just continues to work as the user purchased it if no update is purchased, right?

Adison verlice

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] yeah, to make the device more "useful". some people want that useful functionality. but let me emphasize again, yo udon't get that with apple and Google. they offer the same updates too, at no editional cost to you. also, it doesn't matter, it's still heavy exploitation regardless. unless you're, I don't know, providing me 24/7 phone support dedicated, or giving me a remote monitoring package worth the subscription, it's not only unfeasible for the consumer, but also exploitative. in other words, if you're going to provide a product, make it one-time. it should only be subscriptin-based if there is a service to be had, like, again, 24/7 support, and/or remote support.

Kevin Karhan

6d ago

@averlice @techsinger @GraceTechNerd @alexchapman @BlazieTech exactly!

PICK ONE!

You can't have your cake and eat it too.
- Espechally when it's like a pricing set that I could justify for some Engineerimg Software that is vetted for accuracy and used by companies to make money with to the point that it's cost is negligible.

Whereas $200 per year is quite substantial for the target audience of consumers which ain't earning above average!