Mastodawn

If the original Mac had used icons in menus from the start, nobody in their right mind would be calling for their removal today.

That's how you know that argument doesn't reflect reality. All major platforms now have icons in menus; you can't wind back the clock on that one, you're just obstinately refusing to follow the system standards and user expectation.

So much ink and many podcast hours have been wasted discussing the wrong parts of the issues with Liquid Glass on the Mac

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Niki Tonsky 5d ago

@stroughtonsmith I would. It’s not a question of “are we used to it or not”. It’s about principles: do icons help you find stuff faster? Do they help understand the meaning of the action? For most of the menu items, no. The original Mac didn’t have icons not because they couldn’t do it, but because it was impossible to do in a good and meaningful way. Still is. It’s not about computers capabilities, it’s about how human perception works. Humans are still the same

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Steve Troughton-Smith 5d ago

@nikitonsky are you calling for them to be removed from iOS?

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Niki Tonsky 5d ago

@stroughtonsmith maybe if I used iOS more (which I barely do) and then used menus there more (which I almost never do) I would care about it. Where do you even see a menu on iOS? When deleting an app from a home screen?

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Steve Troughton-Smith 5d ago

@nikitonsky there are pull-downs everywhere in iOS, and longpress context menus everywhere else 😅 Save for not using any native apps, I don't know how you could avoid them

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dmitriid 5d ago

@stroughtonsmith @nikitonsky

They are not everywhere. All apps on iOS are designed to avoid menus as much as possible.

You discover any long presses and those by accident and usually dismiss them.

I think the only menu-like object anyone encounters with any frequency is the text options (select, paste, lookup).

Oh. When you want to edit the home screen you are now presented with a menu first because apps can populate it. The order of the menu depends on icon position lol.

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Niki Tonsky

@dmitriid @stroughtonsmith long press on a folder shows menu with 3 random apps from that folder? Not even first 3? ew