Steve Troughton-SmithMar 17

If the original Mac had used icons in menus from the start, nobody in their right mind would be calling for their removal today.

That's how you know that argument doesn't reflect reality. All major platforms now have icons in menus; you can't wind back the clock on that one, you're just obstinately refusing to follow the system standards and user expectation.

So much ink and many podcast hours have been wasted discussing the wrong parts of the issues with Liquid Glass on the Mac

Show threadNiki TonskyMar 17
@stroughtonsmith I would. It’s not a question of “are we used to it or not”. It’s about principles: do icons help you find stuff faster? Do they help understand the meaning of the action? For most of the menu items, no. The original Mac didn’t have icons not because they couldn’t do it, but because it was impossible to do in a good and meaningful way. Still is. It’s not about computers capabilities, it’s about how human perception works. Humans are still the same
Show threadJohn GruberMar 17
@nikitonsky @stroughtonsmith Bingo.
Show threadMindaugas RudokasMar 18
@gruber @nikitonsky @stroughtonsmith Let’s not forget that *also* humans are *different*! Some are very happy about macOS menu icons *exactly* because of how their perception works. And they will say YES to those questions even in current state of implementation. Maybe that goes under the accessibility umbrella because of the small percentage of population, but this alone warrants the development.
Show threadSteve Troughton-Smith
@mrudokas @gruber @nikitonsky I'm in that camp; I much prefer menus with icons, they're easier to scan, and I feel legacy wall-of-text menus look dated and awful now. I would be furious if they took the menu icons away again just because of the podcast discourse. Is it really a case where they need to add a setting, though, or is it just a cheap outlet for other frustrations with the OS design?
Mar 18 at 10:24amIvory for Mac
Show threadMindaugas RudokasMar 18

@stroughtonsmith @gruber @nikitonsky I prefer having some icons, so I could not tell.

You need to clean the mess first and then do some UX research. We have no idea how many complain about “noise” purely because of shitty quality of implementation vs who really function better with text-only.