If the original Mac had used icons in menus from the start, nobody in their right mind would be calling for their removal today.
That's how you know that argument doesn't reflect reality. All major platforms now have icons in menus; you can't wind back the clock on that one, you're just obstinately refusing to follow the system standards and user expectation.
So much ink and many podcast hours have been wasted discussing the wrong parts of the issues with Liquid Glass on the Mac
@stroughtonsmith It's one of the *many* issues with the design trends.
Icons become pure visual noise. And they are wildly inconsistent between apps even in the same app suite by the same company. And you can't always find a good icon metaphor to fit into a 16x16 box.
It's not just an Apple issue. It's the industry issue
@dmitriid @stroughtonsmith not to mention when different developers use different icons for similarly/same menu items across apps. Or how you can’t even make out what they are on non-retina displays.
(Almost all offices don’t offer their employees Studio Displays).
@marioguzman @dmitriid none of this is an excuse not to do them, though — all of these things are bugs that they've chosen to ship, not an existential flaw. We need more highly-specific icons. We need more standardized icons. We need better lowdpi support.
The answer as to why now? Because iOS already does it, and macOS is aligning with iOS, as it has been for decades. macOS is aligning with iOS because users expect it, developers are building for it, and it ties into touchscreen support
@stroughtonsmith @dmitriid ah so it’s about uniformity/consistency across platforms.
I hate to say but that’s still not a good enough reason to me. This consistency is what got us into this lowest common denominator mess in the first place and why some Mac apps just feel like iPad apps.
@stroughtonsmith @marioguzman @dmitriid
Strong NO.
macOS is different for very good reasons, and all tries to merge them, both in function and design, have failed spectacularly, as we have seen with "Broken Glass" and the countless new bugs in the unified "UIKit" on macOS.
I want people at Apple who understand that difference, and don't force miserably failed UI ideas from iOS to the Mac.
@stroughtonsmith @marioguzman @dmitriid
You should really talk to some Mac users and what they think about "Broken Glass" and the amount of bugs creeping up. Doing support for my Mac applications, I have yet to find a single user liking the new interface style, and the constant crashes in macOS...
@marioguzman @stroughtonsmith @dmitriid
Sure, that seems indeed to be the case. Cook never understood anything about software or user interfaces, he only reads the $$$$, and that is enough for him.. Sigh.
@stroughtonsmith @marioguzman @cdfinder
Apple's new software design chief, Steve Lemay, was "a driving force" behind Liquid Glass and was "deeply involved in its development."
https://www.macrumors.com/2026/03/15/ios-27-macos-27-no-major-liquid-glass-changes/
@stroughtonsmith @cdfinder @marioguzman
Windows has never been more successful until the amount of shitty decisions outweighed success and user loyalty.
Already now the only reason Apple boasts great adoption numbers for Tahoe and iOS 17 is because it literally tricks users into upgrading. Oh, and their hardware is amazing.
@stroughtonsmith @marioguzman @dmitriid > macOS is aligning with iOS because users expect it
No. Mac OS has been aligning with iOS as part of a strategy that suited Apple. Apple started it, Apple said ‘it’s what the users want’.
During those years when Mac OS and iOS were more distinctive, I was still doing tech support, and not one client told me, “Man, this Mac OS is so hard to use… I wish it was more like my phone.” People became more confused when Mac OS started (badly) aping iOS.
> macOS is aligning with iOS because users expect it,
They... don't
> developers are building for it,
Because Apple fully prioritizes iOS only, tells devs to ship shitty half-assed ports on MacOS, and ships half-assed apps itself, and generally deprioritizes MacOS
> and it ties into touchscreen support
There's no way of making proper touch screen support for an OS running on large screens and using high-precision pointing devices without killing it
BTW here are some criticisms for the existing OS https://blog.apotenza.com/the-neo-cannot-scale-with-macos-behind-on-the-basics
They will never matter for modern Apple because they view everything as one big iPhone.
Steve Troughton-Smith
dmitriid
Mario Guzmán
NMDoerner
Riccardo Mori