pastermilMar 17

nation of professional protesters

https://sh.itjust.works/post/56935952

Show threadExLisperMar 17

Do those actually achieve anything? The biggest protests we hard about where the ones against pensions reform and this reform was only delayed when the ruling party failed to form the government several times. It was result of typical politics, not protests.

What I see happening over and over in Spain is:

  • Some union announces a strike and presents it demands
  • They sit and negotiate with the government
  • (optional) They don’t reach an agreement, strike is enacted and services are limited to legally guaranteed 'necessary minimum’
  • They reach an agreement, strike ends.

    • No protests, no grilling on the tram rails. Just negotiating and using legal leverage. Last one was railway strikes after series of accidents. They reached an agreement before the strike. Unions called it “historic” and won better investment in maintenance and personnel.

    So, do the French protest actually achieve anything or does it only look nice in memes? Can someone give some examples of what they won recently?

    Show threadnull

    Protests and labor strikes increase the leverage workers have when negotiating for better compensation. There is no leverage if there is no protest.

    One of my favorite examples was a mutiny during WWI where they were fed up with charging to their deaths. The tangible results were the commander got sacked and they didn’t have to charge to their death.

    Mar 17 at 9:21amWeb
    Show threadExLisperMar 17

    Yes, I even gave concrete example of how rail workers in Spain used this leverage recently.

    I’m asking for concrete examples from France. What did they achieve recently? WWI is not recently.

    Show threadnullMar 17
    My example was the French Army. I didn’t dig for modern sources for you because I only wanted to post the one I liked.
    Show threadMartianSandsMar 17

    How about the gilets jaunes protests? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_vests_protests

    The french, specifically, have a long tradition of putting their foot down and refusing to accept what their government is doing. I don’t have specific links discussing it, but I know that occasionally entire major motorways will be shut down because farmers or lorry drivers have blocked them with heavy industrial machines, and they stay that way until those people decide to move. I also know that there’s an entire region (Brittany) where the motorways aren’t toll roads, unlike the rest of France, because every time they try the cameras and toll booths get destroyed.

    Yellow vests protests - Wikipedia

    Show threadExLisperMar 17

    Yes, but what did they achieve? I know about the protests. The wiki article you linked doesn’t mention any gains.

    “Participation in the weekly protests diminished and eventually ended entirely due to the COVID-19 pandemic in France, although minor protests continued after health restrictions were lifted.”

    Those were mainly Macron opponents protesting and demanding his resignation. He didn’t resign. They had some other demands but the article doesn’t mention if any of them were realized by the government.

    So yes, the protests looked nice in pictures but besides damaging some property, what did they achieve?

    Show threadxavMar 17
    They successfully canceled a gas tax raise.
    Show threadExLisperMar 17

    I think it was more of a delay than cancellation: www.connexionfrance.com/news/…/705889

    Gas prices went up everywhere anyway. But yes, I guess that was some concession from the government so it’s a good example.

    New French Car Tax 2025: Higher CO² Emission Penalties Explained

    Discover how France's 2025 budget introduces higher taxes on new thermal cars based on CO² emissions and weight, impacting popular models like Renault Clio and Peugeot 208.

    connexionfrance
    Show threadSkunkMar 17

    You’ll have to look a decade in the past.

    Under former presidents (Hollande, Sarko and Chirac) protests did work.

    Now it’s only since Macron that they are less effective as he does not care unless everything is literally burning.

    I don’t have examples in mind, I participated in some of them but I was younger and do not really remember the details.

    Show threadExLisperMar 17
    Someone gave example of mass protests against El Khomri law under Hollande and despite the protests the law did pass. But yeah, maybe before that it did work. My point is that in Spain for example worker unions score wins all the time while it looks like in France the government simply learned to ignore the protests. The perception that the French are better at fighting for their rights than other nations is at best outdated or it was just a myth all along.
    Show threadtinoMar 17
    Originally, the yellow vests protested because of an increase onfuel tax, to finance environmental measures. They got that tax increase to be halted. Also, agricultors regularly protest and get the reintroduction of harmful pesticides. Basically, the only trade-off the government is ready to accept is giving up on ecological progress.
    Show threadcaseyannabellMar 18
    Hey
    Show threadtamal3Mar 17
    35 hr work week has been maintained apnews.com/general-news-96d7f44de4e44f1ebdc7bf86f…
    French protest against bill tampering with 35-hour week

    Tens of thousands of people protested across France on Wednesday against President Francois Hollande's determination to achieve what his conservative predecessor didn't even dare to try _ tamper with the 35-hour workweek. Workers, unemployed and youths joined forces on Wednesday, answering calls from student organizations and unions in more than 200 cities across France to try to kill the bill, which has even divided Hollande's ruling Socialist party.

    AP News
    Show threadExLisperMar 17

    This law did pass: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Khomri_law

    Very curious you claim that they maintained 35 hours work week while only posting a link about the protests. It’s like people think that protesting something == getting something.

    El Khomri law - Wikipedia

    Show threadtamal3Mar 17

    You seem to be right. I was wrong. I really thought they won that one!

    The showing was amazing and inspiring, but if they didn’t win the thing they were fighting for, then we need to learn a lesson from that too. Thanks for pushing back.