Mastodawn

Trump’s call for allied deployment to strait of Hormuz meets muted response

https://lemmy.world/post/44312761

Trump’s call for allied deployment to strait of Hormuz meets muted response - Lemmy.World

UK and Japan among countries that are considering options but yet to commit warships to blockaded shipping route Countries including the UK, Japan, China and South Korea have said they are still considering their options but without making commitments after the US president, Donald Trump, urged them to send warships to the strait of Hormuz to secure the vital shipping route. The effective closure of the strait of Hormuz by Tehran, in retaliation for airstrikes by the US and Israel, has proved catastrophic for global energy and trade flows, causing the largest oil supply disruption in history and soaring global oil prices. However, the international response to Trump’s call for the dispatch of warships has so far proved vague and reluctant, with countries unwilling to commit to a military response that could prove treacherous for their navies.

SeeMarkFly 6d ago

Suppose They Gave a War and No One Came.

nymnympseudonym 6d ago

Suppose we started a war but the other side didn’t want to finish when we did

SeeMarkFly 6d ago

Then you didn’t start a war, you started a problem.

I’m fairly certain that Putin approves.

crank0271 6d ago

This seems to suggest that shitting on our allies, behaving erratically, and stabbing them in the back (and front) isn’t the best way to build a broad coalition devoted to mutual interests, to say nothing of a narrow coalition devoted to obvious imperialism. I look forward to learning more about this hypothesis in The Art of the Deal 2.

Everyone is heavily incentivized to watch Trump sweat a bit more.

I imagine there are very few leaders who wouldn’t be happy to see Trump replaced.

Why would we come to his aid to mitigate this catastrophic unforced error.

The US has fucked everyone. I’ve literally been angry about it for a decade now.

The dildo of consequence rarely arrives lubed.

Echo Dot 6d ago

There isn’t a lot of reason for any world leaders to help Trump at the moment. Our strategic oil reserves had some oil in them, it’s always a good idea to make sure you have lots of reserve oil before attacking an petrostate, so we can just sit it out for a couple of months.

Also it takes time to ready a naval fleet they’re not just sitting around on the off chance that some despotic old fart causes an international incident for literally no reason at all.

So between taking the time to equip and it being strategically advantageous to hold off for a while no one’s coming to help any time soon. Also the war is extremely unpopular with the public so there’s not a lot of reason for international politicians to damage their reputations, it’s not like Trump would be grateful.

If Trump doesn’t TACO in the next 6 months then maybe there will be some ships.

I don’t think Trump really can TACO on this one. I’m certain that he would like to turn this one off but Iran will continue attacking US allies in the region.

humanspiral 6d ago

An easy offramp without resolving nuclear issue is the US will agree to leave if SoH shipping is open to all but Israel. Israel and Iran can make their own deal. This is harder to spin as a victory than buying Iran’s uranium, but it’s something Iran would agree to.

Echo Dot 5d ago

There isn’t even “a nuclear issue” that’s just a made-up nonsense story from the White House with absolutely no basis in fact.

Does Iran want to develop nuclear weapons, well probably. Are they developing nuclear weapons, no.
So what’s the problem?

In terms of a country likely to develop illicit nuclear weapons I would be much more concerned Israel ramping up their supply but surprise surprise Trump doesn’t think that’s a concern.

The United States itself is well outside weapons range, it’s not even clear that they could hit Northern Europe, (Cyprus is the most northernly target they’ve hit so far) so this war is only happening because the US has military forces in the region. If they just left, the war would end, by necessity.

humanspiral 5d ago

While the real motive for Iran antagonism is to permit more Israel genocide and expansion, there is a lot of “political capital” invested in ending Iranian nuclear program. Buying Iran’s uranium at a high price can satisfy both US victory over denuclearization, and Iran’s demand for reparations as well as trade normalization.

Echo Dot 5d ago

The economic situation will force Trump to negotiate with Iran or the general public will lynch him. Iran’s big problem is that the Americans are attacking them so if they stopped doing that and went away Iran could spin it as a victory and Trump can just lie about it and claim that Iran gave massive concessions which never happened. It’s not like MAGAs will fact check.

UnspecificGravity 6d ago

He is just looking for someone to be left holding the bag that he has already filled with shit.

givesomefucks 6d ago

Israel.

Israel is the perfect scapegoat on this, all trump has to do is pull his ships back and stop being a defense for Israel.

That’s literally what the American Christian right has always wanted with their support of Israel too.

Their doomsday prophecy is:

Jewish ethnostate in Israel

War in the Middle East, started by Israel

Israel getting wiped off the map which causes the rapture

Nonbelivers have to experience Armageddon

Which was cool with Israel up to step 2, but we just passed that a few weeks ago…

bearboiblake 6d ago

Israel probably has hella kompromat on Trump. Epstein was a Mossad asset after all.

Archangel1313 6d ago

This is really stupid, just from a strategic point of view, let alone from a moral or political perspective. Sending ships into the Strait just puts those ships in the line of fire…so, why would anyone actually agree to send ships there?

Iran has the “high ground” here. There is no way for ships to take back control of the Strait this way. All the US is doing, is asking allies to take losses for no reason.

Em Adespoton 6d ago

Or… he’s asking them to take losses because he doesn’t consider them allies. World conquest would be easier with the Chinese and UK navies out of the way.

OwOarchist 6d ago

He really thinks the Chinese navy is going to help?

Em Adespoton 6d ago

He loses nothing by asking….

Echo Dot 6d ago

I lose nothing by asking out Angelina Jolie but she’s going to say no and I’m going to look like a twit.

bearboiblake 6d ago

The fact he included China is the funniest part. Chinese ships are already passing through the strait with Iran’s blessing, why the fuck would they ever help lmfao

Not sending ships is harming the economy and preventing gas and energy going where it is needed. Also forcing it to be flared of potentially.

There are obvious reasons one might want to put assets at risk to prevent that. And benefit from shipments.

Echo Dot 6d ago

Fuel prices aren’t going up at the moment because we have reserves. It’s likely that Trump will give up before those run out in 6 months time, so why risk the assets?

Fuel prices have gone up by about a third or more. I have no idea where you live but to me this just sounds plainly untrue, since other countries and economies are suffering. And about 20% of global production stopping is obviously a thing.

Echo Dot 5d ago

I didn’t say that it’s not having an effect, I said the effect is not as bad right now as it is for the US because the US doesn’t have access to its oil reserves well actually it does have access to its oil reserves but the administration won’t use it because there’s hardly any left but it amounts to the same thing.

Local diesel prices in the USA have jumped $1.50 in two weeks. So far.

Echo Dot 5d ago

Yes but the thing about countries that are not the US is they’re not affected by prices in the US. That’s why I said that we’re basing prices on the oil reserve that we have. Obviously that can’t last forever but if there is one thing Trump is famous for it’s giving up when things get marginally difficult.

humanspiral 6d ago

The mental cage you have, is that the war needs to continue.

I thought he had already won the war? Why does he need help again? We wouldn’t be any help any way. We wouldn’t be anywhere near the front lines according to him.

crank0271 6d ago

What front lines? Maybe for celebratory hamburgers, since the war is already won?

UK, Japan, China and South Korea

Hum… A month ago UK was preparing for a war against the US with the rest of NATO.

And China?! Really?!

Japan barely has a navy, I’m not sure South Korea even has ships on theirs.

Japan barely has a navy

??? In case you weren’t aware, we’re an island nation. How do you think we protect our shores?

chosensilence 6d ago

yeah no fucking shit lol. why would anyone comply? it’s only a matter of time before some iranians 9/11 us and our allies are not itching to prevent something we 100% started at their expense.

bearboiblake 6d ago

if there is a 9/11 style attack, I would bet good money that it would be a false flag from the US. they have many many many instances of false flag attacks in the past.

Greyghoster 6d ago

Apparently it’s illegal for US ships to escort foreign vessels. Seems hard to believe but if it is the case then Trump is really begging.

then_three_more 6d ago

Can’t ships change flag while at sea? That one taking stuff from south America to Russia carrying who knows what did a few months ago. So all the ship would be to do is declare itself American while it goes through the strait, the revert back to its original flag after.

humanspiral 6d ago

US can also lease a ship already on the wrong side of SoH, to make it fully American.

humanspiral 6d ago

Is that more illegal than bombing fishing boats? At any rate, just make the totally certain to be successful escort mission use US oil tankers and ships, because the US has so many ships to spare, and the mission is being done because they’ve totally won the war and no one can touch greatest military ever.

West_of_West 6d ago

Damn, wasn’t it like 5 days ago he said he didn’t need the Royal Navy?

Echo Dot 6d ago

Yes but reality and Trump have never been comfortable bedfellows. He claimed that Iran’s entire naval fleet had been completely wiped out and it turns out it was just one ship they sunk. And now the world’s most powerful military are apparently unable to secure a patch of water about 20 miles across.

ZombieCyborgFromOuterSpace 6d ago

Never has it been more obvious how important it is to get fossil fuels out and invest in solar, wind and nuclear power.

I hope everyone else leaves the U.S. and every petro state with their garbage oil and go their own way by investing in green energy, E.V.s and mass transit.

HugeNerd 6d ago

Yes, please describe plastics, pharmaceuticals, fertilizers, air travel, sea transport with solar panels.

The “garbage oil” is what allows 8 billion people to exist. It’s what gave you everything that surrounds you.

SkaveRat 6d ago

Makes it even more important that we should stop burning that stuff and using it for more useful things

HugeNerd 6d ago

I understand, but you need to understand that the type of civilization that will result from that will be drastically different than the party humanity had during the cheap energy stage. You think housing and food are expensive now? Ho boy!

Also, your kids won’t be electrical engineers, but farriers and carpenters.

humanspiral 6d ago

This is false. It is a cheaper energy future with more resilience and less reason for war (profiteering for stategic scarcity). Hydrogen-solar economy is cheaper than adding new fossil fuels, and so transitioning away the most economic path, before worrying about the expense of reversing climate damage. That incumbent energy loses in transition as demand fades for their climate terrorism should not be part of equation.

TheObviousSolution 6d ago

As it should. NATO is a defense alliance, not a pedoking/kingbibi distraction gone bad. I hope the EU can keep holding on, because the influx into far right parties and EU election tampering has become noticeable enough to possibly change this in the future.

HugeNerd 6d ago

NATO only does humanitarian bombing.

haha

HugeNerd 6d ago

Don’t you laugh, damn you.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia

“NATO framed its bombing as a humanitarian intervention”

A purely defensive humanitarian bombing, mind you, according to astute international affairs observer TheObviousSolution.

Now, let me tell you about a country called Russia. They don’t do humanitarian bombings. That’s quite silly of them since all they needed to do is “frame” it as such.

But what can you expect from a country that can apparently invade all of Europe with a single washing machine CPU.

NATO bombing of Yugoslavia - Wikipedia

Let’s ask one related question so everyone can decide whether any argument here will be handled in good faith or not.

Do you believe Bosnian Serbs were commiting genocide?

humanspiral 6d ago

Original conflict was about Kosovo. 1000 years of progroms by both Ottomans and Serbia to the region. Serbian claims of Albanian gangs doing mean stuff certainly had a basis. Serbian army intervening is like Russia defending Donbas, or like NATO intervention for Kosovo/Albania (both picking a side), and more legitimate than US recent bombing of Carribean fishing boats.

Fighting in Bosnia, even if groups had arms supply support from different sides is much harder to make the usual political BS warcrime accusations that comes from home grown political narratives, and political BS against specifically Bosnian Serbs is an extreme stretch that has never stopped US+Colonial empire scum before.

TheObviousSolution 6d ago

Sorry to offend your favorite country’s pedoking ally that you had to go several decades into the past. Funny though, the love relationship between Trump and Putin, and how offended people like you seem to get when either are criticized.

NATO is a defense alliance. That it has or hasn’t lived up to the designation isn’t a good segue into your propaganda spins and attempts at talking bullshit about other users, it can be criticized when it hasn’t just as it is being criticized now.

NATO was formed by america to control Europe as pawn against soviet union, it has nothing to do with defense.

NATO had many nazis as generals initially, had it been defence alliance they wouldve accepted soviet union in NATO just after WW2 when soviet union asked so, but no their whole intention was to make an enemy and fund lockheed martin

Death to NATO

𝕱𝖎𝖗𝖊𝖜𝖎𝖙𝖈𝖍 6d ago

The next world war is gonna be governments vs people. World civil war

humanspiral 6d ago

The scary far right parties tend to be against NATO. CDU implemented all of the hateful anti-immigrant legislation the AfD wanted. Its those “pure liberal hearts” that want war on Russia, and digital ID surveillance.

The United States needs a regime change

Randelung 6d ago

And a system change to boot. This is a symptom.

vaultdweller013 6d ago

Personally I think this is a Yugoslavia type situation. Better to just dissolve it all and contain all the stupid shit to one country, who’s the Serbia in this situation though since all the old regions of the US outside of the Carolinas are ambivalent at best towards this shit.

Treczoks 6d ago

Why should any sane country even respond? This is an American-Israeli undertaking. They started it out of folly, they deal with it.

Maybe he should ask his “Board of Peace” for support. There are more than enough bootlickers.

Or the ships should simply follow the law of the seas: the country responsible for the ships’ security in such cases is the one they are sailing under. Let’s see how Panama, Nigeria, Philippines (or whatever is the cheapest flag of fancy at the moment) run to help.

If someone should protect the strait, its UAE, Saudi-Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait and everyone who’s exports are dependent of it.

humanspiral 6d ago

According to Iran, some of the strikes on those territories are black flag ops by Mossad/Israel. Israel would do this to keep GCC allied with “US mission”. GCC is faced with choice of attacks by Iran or by axis of demonism. All of the countries you listed, KSA excepted, have outsourced their military to the US.

All of the countries you listed are opposed to the war, and would be thrilled with full cease fire, and Iran giving everyone permission to transit Gulf, and trade.