Pope Bob the Unsane@purrperl so it'd be like GitHub, but every commit would need 1,000,000 approvals from various 'members' of the site? What would stop someone from hosting their own project / site, and offering commits after 250,000 approvals, In the name of speeding up development?
Ashwin DixitIt's Free as usual.
Say Codeberg, rather than some proprietary git host.
Nothing prevents people from forking off projects, and experimenting.
In fact, it is welcomed!
However, those forked packages won't be trusted, only the mainline packages.
If a fork is ever to make it into the trusted main branch, it will have to undergo the same rigorous audit.
@purrperl I think all of that works against the strong reason open source has seen the success it has, which is its anarchistic nature.
Centralizing all projects under one roof seems like a good idea until that roof falls down.
"Roof falls down" ? How so?
Anarchism just means no authorities.
Democracy is Anarchism in Government.
Science is Anarchism in Knowledge.
Art is Anarchism is Aesthetics.
Random experimentation with code, starting from scratch, or from a fork of the Free Software mainline remains free as ever, and is encouraged.
@purrperl well, who is operating the website that hosts all of this, how is it being paid for, is its code also subject to arduous examination?
Anarchism eschews hierarchies of all kinds wherever they are not justifiable.
Deliberately placing onerous restrictions on projects of all sizes seems extreme and would need some serious justifying.
Where is the hierarchy?
We have been brainwashed with the idea that "anarchy" is a bad word.
Say "anarchy" to the average person, and their mind emotionally pulls up images of rampant lawlessness, looting, arson, vandalism, murder, rape and robbery in the streets.
A True Democracy really is an Anarchism.
As Alan Moore said, what happens in an Anarchism, is that the most powerful faction takes over. And that is what happened in the Untied Snakes of Armored Cars. With good PR.
@purrperl where is the hierarchy: Who decides on a million eyes per commit? Who has the authority to change that number? Where does that number come from?
Again, you have seized upon the million eyes as a literal number.
A small group of core maintainers runs Linux and has definite authority over what goes in.
In the new model, even their power is dissipated. It's more programmatic and democratic.
@purrperl ok, so explain to me how you would "change" the way Linux is developed to move it to this new model. Help me understand the benefit of your new model versus how things are in the present.
It's a priming / bootstrapping problem to transition. It takes land-based vehicle to tow an engine-less glider and generate the lift to get it off the ground. Once launched, it can cruise on thermal currents, and solar energy, practically indefinitely.
In the new model, the current core programmers, whom we deem to be honest, code up a mechanism setting up a number of sign-offs required for new code to make the final cut. That number becomes subject to the same audit process.
@purrperl "whom we deem to be honest" who is we, and how do we deem them to be honest?
"We the People...", means everybody.
GNU/Linux wasn't born yesterday.
There's a sizable crowd of people behind it.
They all trust it.
Once the new decentralized model is up and running, it is radically transparent and democratic.
People in the continent of North Vespuccia didn't choose to become a democracy ( republic ).
It took a cohort of slaveholders to declare themselves the Founding Fathers ( Mack Daddies with slave girls to entertain them in their private quarters. đ )
@purrperl ok, so you me, and all the other Linux fans out there get to go through the commit logs and axe a bunch of developers, and remove them from the Linux project?
Who said anything about removing anyone?
It's the Linux OGs giving love to the street, handing over their co-creation to the people.
Helping people unify, empower themselves, and become involved easily.
Nobody is axed or excluded.
Code is code. Contributors cannot be smeared and shunned.
Anyone can commit, even if they are an unpopular human, a đ€ , an đœ , or something else.
"Hey, did you hear that RMS is a creep, and ESR is a pervert?"
"A study funded by Microsoft found that most Open Source developers have unresolved issues." đ
@purrperl everyone _CAN_ currently commit and make changes to a local clone of the kernel source code.
Whether their patches are approved is up to existing developers of the Linux kernel project.
Yes, and it was fragmented into distros, mired in confusion.
One repo, one distro mainline, one audit pipeline, one easy way to report bugs.
@purrperl what was fragmented into distros and mired in confusion?
Are you saying Debian and RedHat maintain their own forks of the kernel?
@purrperl what is your issue with https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/process/submitting-patches.html ?
My issue is that Linux was for and by nerds.
The new Linux is more akin to macOS, beautiful eye-candy, elegant design, except Free.
@purrperl oh. You aren't complaining about the "new Linux"...
What are your issues with the eye-candy heavy desktop environments like KDE and Cinnamon?
The problem was that they were "too customizable".
macOS did not ask you to choose a Window Manager & Desktop out of the box.
The Golden Path, "just worked".
Linux required you to know a lot to be workable.
You could make it laden with eyecandy, or use something as spartan as fvwm.
In the new Linux ( working title: Red Gnome ), the Golden Path just works out of the box, without asking thorny questions of the user.
The choice is not either/or:
https://rant.li/ashwin/apple
@purrperl when was the last time you explored a few different distributions' installation processes?
Since 1995, I have distro-hopped, ( Yggdrasil, Slackware, SuSE, Red Hat, Mint, Ubuntu, even OpenSolaris, FreeBSD & OpenBSD etc. ), and finally settled on Debian+GNOME, which is less customizable than KDE, therefore less confusing.
Now, I am drawn to nixOS, except I'd like to nix the nix language.
@purrperl Linux in 1995 was very different from Linux in 2025.
Have you installed Linux Mint recently? Or Ubuntu? Or Fedora?
The Linux install process from 1995 was DRAMATICALLY different from the install process today.
Much like installing Windows in 1995 had a different feel than installing it today.
@purrperl here's my proposal to you: start your own Linux distribution.
ONLY include open source projects that have the required rigorous commit approval you are looking for and deem 'safe'.
Make your installer just automatically blast away the partition and install the desktop environment YOU think is
"The Best(tm)" and make it extremely polished with others' help.
Whatever your issue is with Debian or whatever other distro you've tried -- do it differently and fix it.
@purrperl "Think Different" to quote someone or other.
@purrperl let me also point out that the reason macOS and Windows are as popular as they are is because those are what students in school and kids that first interact with a computer experience.
The reason it is the first thing they experience is because Microsoft and Apple have tremendous amount of money to throw at that problem and put things in schools to indoctrinate children.
As such you have a society where fewer people grow up around a computer that is running linux, and you get fewer people that know linux, which means there are fewer teachers to advocate for linux in the classroom.
It is not because they are "easy" to install. It is because any computer someone buys from a major manufacturer comes with either macOS or Windows installed for them.
In the realm of advertising Windows and macOS are Coke and Pepsi, while linux is RC Cola. I fucking LOVE RC Cola,
Apple is like going to a fine Sushi restaurant, đŁ where everything is arranged thoughtfully, you are welcomed in, the Chef is very polite, and sushi is served nicely arranged on a platter for you to appreciate and gobble down with ease.
Linux is like someone throwing you a fishing rod, đŁ hook, line, and sinker. Go fish. Clean it, and cook it however you like. Good luck. You want to really learn how to fish? Hang out with the experienced fishermen â curmudgeonly, salty sea dogs.
@purrperl what's wrong with that?
At that rate, we will never have The Year of Linux on the Desktop.
That's all. That's what I am addressing.
@purrperl it's been the year of Linux on the desktop for over 20 years for me. I'm perfectly fine with Linux as a desktop.
@purrperl also, how are you addressing the problem you see?
A radical Linux distribution, designed for the masses.
User mode: Highly streamlined. No confusing junk/guesswork/technical questions.
GUI only. No CLI.
Expert mode: Highly customizable, without touching the source code. Similar to present day Linux geeks tweaking their setup with themes, custom technical configs. Both GUI & CLI.
Dev mode: Lets you edit the source of any app, and the OS itself. Edit & see changes running live, ASAP. Can fall back to last known good version.
contd.
nixOS lets you run apps in isolation, making Dev mode possible.
Bring in some talented designers ( ala macOS ) to do the UX.
Nice fonts. Consistent & elegant design.
@purrperl how does nixOS run a program in isolation?
Sounds like you've got a great plan for yourself -- make it so.
I am in physical pain, homeless in Japan, after facing persecution as a whistleblower in USA.
https://whistleblower.lovestoblog.com/
Cut out by banks out of my own money. Thrown on the street. Hounded by cops, Denied public defense in court. ET freakin' CETERA!
@purrperl sounds like you have other things to consider and prioritize. Creating a new Linux distro might be something to put off for a while.
I do whatever creative stuff I can to keep my spirits and dreams alive, while I am down on the street. Without being creative, I would not have survived over 2 years of homelessness.
Please check out the photo albums in my profile. On the street, it's hard to do much focused work for extended periods. But a camera lets me pause and capture beauty around me. I deliberately don't photograph the gritty, dark reality I live in. Art is my lifeboat.
1/2
Once I get food, housing, and medical care, I will turn my camera and narrative onto the street, and bring to the world, reporting of the lives of the homeless people I encountered on the streets, in California, Hawai'i, and Japan. It's the least I can do, with the privilege I have, and to pay forward the kindness I received from strangers along the way.
One photo is from the public restroom where I slept last night, taking shelter from the freezing night winds of Tokyo.
The other photo is from this morning, ready to face the day, again. And all that Jazz! đ
Yes, living rough can make one angry. I remind myself of Terry Pratchett's advice regarding "militant decency".
People here call me ć±ăȘă / "Abunai" / Dangerous.
Guess I should take it as a compliment, like Michael Jackson's album. đ
