Mastodawn

@benroyce Hopefully the Democrats have learned a lesson from 2024 and stop running lite republicans. They're entitled morons if they expect people who don't like genocide to vote blue no matter who. #uspol

we show up in the primaries and get the left candidate in

this is the lesson of mamdani: the people just bucked the establishment, and made it happen

corporatist dems will not magically decide to become leftists, and anyone who thinks they will must be joking

*we* have to show up and replace them

anyone who doesn't show up in the primaries, then complains the dem candidates suck, needs to shut up: they are the reason why the candidates suck

@benroyce Ok so what if leftists do come out to vote in the primaries, but their vote gets split because whoops there happen to be one too many leftish candidates running and then the pro-genocide candidate gets the nomination?

i don't understand your complaint

"what if something bad happens"?

of course. there's numerous other scenarios where something can go wrong

or the centrist dem can straight up beat the leftist dem in the primary

and?

the simple point is:

if you vote, you may lose. if you don't vote, you *will* lose

nevermind that if leftists show the fuck up, their concerns will be addressed rather than ignored

no elected official cares about people who don't #vote

you *make them* care

@benroyce I'm just trying to get clarification on who you think is an entitled moron and under what circumstances. If leftists keep voting blue no matter who, the message that sends is that the Democrats can ignore leftists. We should not encourage that sort of entitlement on behalf of the party.

1. i'm talking about the primaries, where you outright choose a leftist

2. if you think "i'm not voting and i'm sending a message to centrist dems":

it doesn't send anyone any message

they just ignore you

and it means you don't care about trans rights, women's rights, voting rights, immigrants, what is going on in iran right now, etc

to pout and sit things out and risk all of that and more "to send a message" is entitled as fuck

nobody cares about people who don't vote

@benroyce Okay, so when a pro-genocide candidate gets nominated, it's best for leftists to vote third-party or write-in in the general. Got it.

if you vote 3rd party you are voting MAGA

in our stupid FPTP voting system you are dividing the left vote and helping MAGA win

and if you stand against harris, for example, due to gaza (ignoring trump?!), then not voting/ 3rd party voting: congratulations, you helped what trump is doing in iran happen

you're talking about feeling pure, for yourself

you don't care what happens in reality

that's entitled

your rationale only helps fascism

a vote is strategy, not a romance

@benroyce No, that is shill logic. Votes must be earned. No candidate, especially from a party that is barely a party, is entitled to anyone's vote.

There *is* something entitled to your vote:

Your society

You're not trans or an immigrant etc so Trump's malice doesn't threaten you

So you are privileged to play silly games like "teach dems a lesson" and allow your society to go to shit. Because it doesn't affect you (or you're too stupid to realize it affects you)

Centrist dems aren't listening to your "lesson." Not voting means you don't care

You have to show up and *replace* centrist dems in the primaries

#vote

@benroyce Dude you don't know anything about me or how or why I vote. That you assume I see voting or not-voting as a means stick it to someone or something reveals your own faulty understanding or disregard of material reality. If Democrats want leftists to vote for them, they just have to run candidates that clear some very low bars. These votes are much easier to get than those from conservatives.

@benroyce Of course, losing campaigns still pay very well, as demonstrated by Kamala's. It's questionable that they really want to win sometimes.

so we show up in the primaries and replace them

"i'm going to show i don't care very hard by not voting and thus magically turn a centrist into a leftist" is moronic beyond belief

@benroyce No argument from me about voting in primary elections. However, counting on left leaning people to vote blue no matter who in general elections is a moronic mistake. It simply does matter who.

i completely understand the existence of morons who won't vote strategically, and hew to an idiotic conception of purity as their standard. and thus allow the country to fall to fascism since that is the only real world effect of their nonvote, no matter their motivations

trolls understand that too. that's why you see so much high holy indignation based on perfectionism

the only value of these useless lumps you think are making valid choices is helping MAGA

liferstate Mar 13

@benroyce @fathermcgruder I'm old enough to remember when the progressive watchword was "Listen to Black women." But when Black women said "I'm voting for Harris and you should too" suddenly that wasn't important anymore.

In 2024, 92% of Black women voted for Harris. It wasn't because they didn't care about Palestine. It's because Black voters know very well that every candidate is flawed and all votes are strategic. White people still refuse to take that lesson.

@liferstate @benroyce Listening does not mean agreeing. Come on now.

@fathermcgruder @liferstate

centrist dems aren't listening at all

we simply have to show up in the primaries and replace them

so any rationale that says "it is correct people should not vote until magic perfect candidate appears" is an inversion of reality and is only an approach that makes sure we drift further right

the simple reality is people need to show the fuck up in a giant mob and register the left candidate as their choice in their primaries

that is only way

#vote

@benroyce @fathermcgruder @liferstate Yes to the primaries. No to centrist Dems regardless of the election. If Dems nominate a centrist they lose my vote. I'm a former party leader who has been in the backroom meetings, if they do not fear losing the general the party absolutely will undermine leftist candidates at the primary stage. The leftist only gets supported when it's clear they lose without them.

There is always another election. If we keep giving in the left can literally never win.

so you're a moron

you always choose the less worse candidate, even if they suck, to at least hold the line

"There is always another election"

yeah, about that...

it must be nice being so entitled David. that you can unleash so much suffering with a MAGA presidency and it doesn't affect you, or you believe it won't affect you. "teaching centrists a lesson" is more important to you than trans rights, immigrants, etc. entitled

you're a fake

@benroyce @fathermcgruder @liferstate Nope, I'm a realist who spent 15 years inside the Dem party including as vice chair of one of the largest orgs in the country.

I have sat in meetings with billionaire funders listening to them dismantle mildly left efforts inside the party. You will literally never win until you start withholding votes. It's short term pain for long term gain.

so you show up in the primaries to get real left candidates. we're together on that

then you show up in the general and hold the line against MAGA if the left candidate does not prevail in the primaries

rinse, repeat. gradually move left

if you let MAGA win you just don't care who you harm, and you're making the effort to move left that much harder

@benroyce @fathermcgruder @liferstate Yes, I will vote for a leftist in the general. Not a centrist.

Again, if we do not demonstrate we will withhold votes in the general, leftist efforts in the primaries will get undermined. That's why we are where we are today, we did not hold the line starting with Bill Clinton.

The longer this goes on the worse it will get.

Btw, as someone who was specifically targeted under the first Trump admin, do not f'ing tell me what I'm risking. I know.

you understand working to replace centrists in the primaries

but you don't understand holding the line in the general

you think "teaching the centrists a lesson" means something

it doesn't mean anything. who cares about centrists. red herring

you hold the line against maga by voting dem in the general

then you go back to the primaries and replace the centrists

it seems to me you don't understand strategy, and you're only harming the left because of that

@benroyce @fathermcgruder @liferstate Again, I'm an actual former party leader as recently as 2022. I've participated in the meetings. If there is no threat of losing in the general it is nearly impossible for a leftist to win a primary. Large donors condition donations on the party undermining leftist candidates in the primary.

Slogans like "vote blue no matter who" are part of a concerted strategy to keep the left impotent.

@benroyce @fathermcgruder @liferstate The party has dozens of tools that can be leveraged to impact outcomes, ranging from extensive voter data, tools like ActBlue, long term cultivated media resources, massive internal funds, endorsement processes (including the pervasive 'early endorsement' strategy used by LDs frequently), etc etc.

All is brought to bear to maintain a centrist party, creating a massive uphill climb for even progressive candidates, leftists have almost no chance.

the party is to be defeated with leftist candidates in the primaries. nobody cares about the centrists. your job is to ignore them and replace them. you have an axe to grind and weak defeatism on a topic that has nothing to with strategy, you're just a useless whiner in a corner

@benroyce @fathermcgruder @liferstate Nope, my job is to elect people who serve their constituents and the community. Full stop. Centrists do not do that. In fact they actively harm the community.

i agree so why do you do nothing but whine about what centrists do

ignore them, get left candidates, replace them

the lesson of mamdani

but instead you have to endlessly whine and grind your axe about centrists

so you're not help at all, you're just showboating and vibing on some past grudge. you're only concerned about your pathetic resentments. you help nothing but yourself

@benroyce @fathermcgruder @liferstate You keep repeating that first part as though anyone has disagreed with it. I actively did that part, and in fact left candidates winning primaries turned King County blue in areas it never had before, and is working across the state of WA as well.

But part of that was also *declining* party support for centrists who got past the primary. Being willing to sacrifice seats made it clear to voters what we supported, and increased enthusiasm and participation.

nobody fucking cares

show up for leftists in the primaries

that's it

endlessly whining or thinking about centrists is nothing but your personal issues and is pointless for coherent strategy, unless your strategy is coping with your psychological needs

fuck off useless whiner

@benroyce @fathermcgruder @liferstate Yeah, 15 years building an effective party while *you* actively hunt down leftists and blame them for not voting for centrists but I'm the whiner.

Call me back when you've done the work, loser.

you're not a leftist

you're a useless whiner

i'm serious: you are not a leftist. all of your words are cope for some grudge you have. nobody fucking cares about you and your grudge. that's not leftist, that's some personal psychological rabbit hole of yours

the issue here is advancing the left, and talking strategy, not babysitting david

seriously you are a completely useless loser with some cringe whiny cope going on, and nothing more

fuck. off.

@benroyce Mind your language, please.

@reflex @liferstate

@fathermcgruder @benroyce His entire timeline is loaded with him tilting at his strawman of an imaginary 'nonvoter' he seems to have invented whole cloth.

2024 had the highest total number of voters in US history, and the second highest turnout of eligible voters in US history but he imagines some nonvoter supposedly is why the Dem candidate was less popular than Trump.

Meanwhile the actual analysis says something very different.

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/democratic-turnout-2024-analysis/

David, a lying malicious moron:

Do you enjoy helping fascism David?

The Democrats’ Lost Millions

The people who really decided the 2024 election are the ones who didn’t vote at all—and they could hold the key to a Democratic comeback.

The Nation

@benroyce @fathermcgruder Again, more Dems voted for Harris in 2024 than voted for Biden in 2020. Nearly a million more. And in the state I helped build, we turned out an even higher margin for Harris than we did for Biden using exactly the tactics I described.

Unclear how the Nation can make that claim when literally more Dems turned out than ever before.