Mastodawn

@benroyce Hopefully the Democrats have learned a lesson from 2024 and stop running lite republicans. They're entitled morons if they expect people who don't like genocide to vote blue no matter who. #uspol

we show up in the primaries and get the left candidate in

this is the lesson of mamdani: the people just bucked the establishment, and made it happen

corporatist dems will not magically decide to become leftists, and anyone who thinks they will must be joking

*we* have to show up and replace them

anyone who doesn't show up in the primaries, then complains the dem candidates suck, needs to shut up: they are the reason why the candidates suck

@benroyce Ok so what if leftists do come out to vote in the primaries, but their vote gets split because whoops there happen to be one too many leftish candidates running and then the pro-genocide candidate gets the nomination?

i don't understand your complaint

"what if something bad happens"?

of course. there's numerous other scenarios where something can go wrong

or the centrist dem can straight up beat the leftist dem in the primary

and?

the simple point is:

if you vote, you may lose. if you don't vote, you *will* lose

nevermind that if leftists show the fuck up, their concerns will be addressed rather than ignored

no elected official cares about people who don't #vote

you *make them* care

@benroyce I'm just trying to get clarification on who you think is an entitled moron and under what circumstances. If leftists keep voting blue no matter who, the message that sends is that the Democrats can ignore leftists. We should not encourage that sort of entitlement on behalf of the party.

1. i'm talking about the primaries, where you outright choose a leftist

2. if you think "i'm not voting and i'm sending a message to centrist dems":

it doesn't send anyone any message

they just ignore you

and it means you don't care about trans rights, women's rights, voting rights, immigrants, what is going on in iran right now, etc

to pout and sit things out and risk all of that and more "to send a message" is entitled as fuck

nobody cares about people who don't vote

@benroyce Okay, so when a pro-genocide candidate gets nominated, it's best for leftists to vote third-party or write-in in the general. Got it.

if you vote 3rd party you are voting MAGA

in our stupid FPTP voting system you are dividing the left vote and helping MAGA win

and if you stand against harris, for example, due to gaza (ignoring trump?!), then not voting/ 3rd party voting: congratulations, you helped what trump is doing in iran happen

you're talking about feeling pure, for yourself

you don't care what happens in reality

that's entitled

your rationale only helps fascism

a vote is strategy, not a romance

@benroyce No, that is shill logic. Votes must be earned. No candidate, especially from a party that is barely a party, is entitled to anyone's vote.

There *is* something entitled to your vote:

Your society

You're not trans or an immigrant etc so Trump's malice doesn't threaten you

So you are privileged to play silly games like "teach dems a lesson" and allow your society to go to shit. Because it doesn't affect you (or you're too stupid to realize it affects you)

Centrist dems aren't listening to your "lesson." Not voting means you don't care

You have to show up and *replace* centrist dems in the primaries

#vote

@benroyce Dude you don't know anything about me or how or why I vote. That you assume I see voting or not-voting as a means stick it to someone or something reveals your own faulty understanding or disregard of material reality. If Democrats want leftists to vote for them, they just have to run candidates that clear some very low bars. These votes are much easier to get than those from conservatives.

𝐂𝐫𝐢𝐦𝐞𝐃𝐚𝐝

@benroyce Of course, losing campaigns still pay very well, as demonstrated by Kamala's. It's questionable that they really want to win sometimes.

so we show up in the primaries and replace them

"i'm going to show i don't care very hard by not voting and thus magically turn a centrist into a leftist" is moronic beyond belief

@benroyce No argument from me about voting in primary elections. However, counting on left leaning people to vote blue no matter who in general elections is a moronic mistake. It simply does matter who.

i completely understand the existence of morons who won't vote strategically, and hew to an idiotic conception of purity as their standard. and thus allow the country to fall to fascism since that is the only real world effect of their nonvote, no matter their motivations

trolls understand that too. that's why you see so much high holy indignation based on perfectionism

the only value of these useless lumps you think are making valid choices is helping MAGA

@benroyce @fathermcgruder I'm old enough to remember when the progressive watchword was "Listen to Black women." But when Black women said "I'm voting for Harris and you should too" suddenly that wasn't important anymore.

In 2024, 92% of Black women voted for Harris. It wasn't because they didn't care about Palestine. It's because Black voters know very well that every candidate is flawed and all votes are strategic. White people still refuse to take that lesson.

@liferstate @benroyce Listening does not mean agreeing. Come on now.

@fathermcgruder @liferstate

centrist dems aren't listening at all

we simply have to show up in the primaries and replace them

so any rationale that says "it is correct people should not vote until magic perfect candidate appears" is an inversion of reality and is only an approach that makes sure we drift further right

the simple reality is people need to show the fuck up in a giant mob and register the left candidate as their choice in their primaries

that is only way

#vote

@benroyce @fathermcgruder @liferstate Yes to the primaries. No to centrist Dems regardless of the election. If Dems nominate a centrist they lose my vote. I'm a former party leader who has been in the backroom meetings, if they do not fear losing the general the party absolutely will undermine leftist candidates at the primary stage. The leftist only gets supported when it's clear they lose without them.

There is always another election. If we keep giving in the left can literally never win.

so you're a moron

you always choose the less worse candidate, even if they suck, to at least hold the line

"There is always another election"

yeah, about that...

it must be nice being so entitled David. that you can unleash so much suffering with a MAGA presidency and it doesn't affect you, or you believe it won't affect you. "teaching centrists a lesson" is more important to you than trans rights, immigrants, etc. entitled

you're a fake

@benroyce @fathermcgruder @liferstate Nope, I'm a realist who spent 15 years inside the Dem party including as vice chair of one of the largest orgs in the country.

I have sat in meetings with billionaire funders listening to them dismantle mildly left efforts inside the party. You will literally never win until you start withholding votes. It's short term pain for long term gain.

so you show up in the primaries to get real left candidates. we're together on that

then you show up in the general and hold the line against MAGA if the left candidate does not prevail in the primaries

rinse, repeat. gradually move left

if you let MAGA win you just don't care who you harm, and you're making the effort to move left that much harder

@benroyce @fathermcgruder @liferstate Yes, I will vote for a leftist in the general. Not a centrist.

Again, if we do not demonstrate we will withhold votes in the general, leftist efforts in the primaries will get undermined. That's why we are where we are today, we did not hold the line starting with Bill Clinton.

The longer this goes on the worse it will get.

Btw, as someone who was specifically targeted under the first Trump admin, do not f'ing tell me what I'm risking. I know.

you understand working to replace centrists in the primaries

but you don't understand holding the line in the general

you think "teaching the centrists a lesson" means something

it doesn't mean anything. who cares about centrists. red herring

you hold the line against maga by voting dem in the general

then you go back to the primaries and replace the centrists

it seems to me you don't understand strategy, and you're only harming the left because of that

@benroyce @fathermcgruder @liferstate Again, I'm an actual former party leader as recently as 2022. I've participated in the meetings. If there is no threat of losing in the general it is nearly impossible for a leftist to win a primary. Large donors condition donations on the party undermining leftist candidates in the primary.

Slogans like "vote blue no matter who" are part of a concerted strategy to keep the left impotent.

@benroyce @fathermcgruder @liferstate The party has dozens of tools that can be leveraged to impact outcomes, ranging from extensive voter data, tools like ActBlue, long term cultivated media resources, massive internal funds, endorsement processes (including the pervasive 'early endorsement' strategy used by LDs frequently), etc etc.

All is brought to bear to maintain a centrist party, creating a massive uphill climb for even progressive candidates, leftists have almost no chance.

the party is to be defeated with leftist candidates in the primaries. nobody cares about the centrists. your job is to ignore them and replace them. you have an axe to grind and weak defeatism on a topic that has nothing to with strategy, you're just a useless whiner in a corner

@benroyce @fathermcgruder @liferstate Nope, my job is to elect people who serve their constituents and the community. Full stop. Centrists do not do that. In fact they actively harm the community.

@reflex @fathermcgruder

i agree so why do you do nothing but whine about what centrists do

ignore them, get left candidates, replace them

the lesson of mamdani

but instead you have to endlessly whine and grind your axe about centrists

so you're not help at all, you're just showboating and vibing on some past grudge. you're only concerned about your pathetic resentments. you help nothing but yourself

@benroyce @fathermcgruder @liferstate You keep repeating that first part as though anyone has disagreed with it. I actively did that part, and in fact left candidates winning primaries turned King County blue in areas it never had before, and is working across the state of WA as well.

But part of that was also *declining* party support for centrists who got past the primary. Being willing to sacrifice seats made it clear to voters what we supported, and increased enthusiasm and participation.

@reflex @fathermcgruder

nobody fucking cares

show up for leftists in the primaries

that's it

endlessly whining or thinking about centrists is nothing but your personal issues and is pointless for coherent strategy, unless your strategy is coping with your psychological needs

fuck off useless whiner

@benroyce @fathermcgruder @liferstate Yeah, 15 years building an effective party while *you* actively hunt down leftists and blame them for not voting for centrists but I'm the whiner.

Call me back when you've done the work, loser.

nobody cares about centrist democrats. it requires showing up in the primaries and choosing leftist candidates and replacing the centrists. your fixation on the centrists and your weakness and defeatism speaks of your personal obsession and lack of character and lack of lucid thought, nothing about a viable strategy

@benroyce @fathermcgruder @liferstate Your view only makes sense if you think political parties have actual platforms and views that they try to advance. They do not. Political parties exist to get candidates running on their banner elected, full stop. Everything else is window dressing.

Parties have *no* values, they are simply vehicles. This is why vote blue no matter who is a trap and a subversion of the goal of electing people who represent the needs of their constituents.

@reflex @fathermcgruder

so stop arguing with me, dimwit, and argue for leftist candidates in the primaries. i'm not your friend, and if you genuinely cared about what you just said you wouldn't be sitting here churning endless whine after endless whine about a topic that has nothing to do with valid strategy. you're a navel gazer off by yourself in the corner. i don't fucking care about your personal grudges. just help with coherent goals or shut the fuck up

@fathermcgruder @liferstate @benroyce

So opposing genocide is demanding "purity" now? The regime committing the genocide is a fascist regime. It is founded on exclusivity and ethno-supremacism. How does one support that and still oppose fascism?

@SeanJH @fathermcgruder @liferstate

who are you responding to

Cassandrich Mar 13

@SeanJH @fathermcgruder @liferstate @benroyce It's not "opposing genocide" to refuse to vote in an election where "cut off support for the country doing genocide or don't cut it off?" is not a question on the ballot.

@SeanJH @liferstate @benroyce

@dalias voting for any pro-genocide candidate sends the wrong feedback signal. We know now that the Democrats got the message: https://www.axios.com/2026/02/22/dnc-2024-autopsy-harris-gaza
Hopefully, they will take heed on future campaigns.

Scoop: Dems working on secret report found Gaza cost Harris votes

The DNC's research on what went wrong in 2024 has been under lock and key since party leaders decided to hide it from the public.

Axios

just, you know, fuck all the trans people, immigrants, women, {insert 1,000 other examples of death and damage domestically and internationally here, including in the middle east which you *say* you care about}, to make your point

which i don't even think was made. you allude to an article, and so what. some airhead centrist is going "well let's appeal to MAGA" about now

do i understand your entitlement obsession and callousness correctly?

@benroyce @fathermcgruder @dalias @SeanJH Trans people who have the means to do so are fleeing the country right now. Not a metaphor. I'm in a pretty safe area and even I have an exit plan.

@liferstate @fathermcgruder @dalias @SeanJH

that's what nonvoters gave us

@dalias @SeanJH @liferstate

@benroyce My point is that supporting genocide is a losing position for Democrats (as it should be). Yet, you keep trying to convince people to just let it slide. That's messed up.

and yet not voting and letting trump win makes genocide worse

so what we're dealing with is morons who don't live in reality, and think they are taking a "brave stand" when all that is happening is they are stupid toxic idealists being manipulated by a troll psyop to get trump elected

Cassandrich Mar 13

@fathermcgruder @SeanJH @liferstate @benroyce There was only one "pro-genocide candidate" and one candidate who was painted by racist pieces of shit as "pro-genocide" for lacking the ability to change the entire US political establishment position on Israel with the power of thought.

Mastodon Migration Mar 13

@dalias @fathermcgruder @SeanJH @liferstate @benroyce

A very important distinction, and one that we will continue to run into. These two things are not the same, and there is some very powerful information warfare targeted at blurring these differences.

@SeanJH @liferstate @benroyce

@dalias All she had to do was call it a genocide. She wouldn't do that bare minimum, so it was clear that she wasn't credible on anything else. Instead she told victims' families to be quiet and mocked them by sending pro-genocide figures to their districts. Denial is pro-genocide because it supports the genociders. Calling it a genocide would also have triggered policies that restrict material support.

and all rational people had to do was vote and get us harris and then we could do harm reduction

instead people like you, toxic idealists, are fine with letting trump win, so you're fine with genocide

you're a fake

1. too stupid to see the only real world value of your toxic idealism: helping trump

2. or you're actively part of the trollfarm to help trump's fascism, and to kill more in genocide, with this bullshit toxic idealism

@dalias @SeanJH @liferstate

@benroyce Look at you comparing a genocide to sharing needles. Incredible.

look at you fine with trump winning and making genocide worse

you're a complete fake

you don't care about genocide at all

you care about showboating and making yourself feel good, fuck the world

that's you

D2 Mar 13

“vOtInG FoR AnY PrO-GeNoCiDe cAnDiDaTe sEnDs tHe wRoNg fEeDbAcK SiGnAl.”

I truly have never completely agreed with any person ever. With your logic, I’d be forever Not Voting. Yes, fallacy of reduction to the absurd extreme, but you did so, as well, when you decided to skip comparison of other important issues and declare all those issues didn’t matter.

“HoPeFuLlY, tHeY WiLl tAkE HeEd oN FuTuRe cAmPaIgNs”

That’s some wild hoping. On the one hand, someone who neither votes nor donates. On the other hand, PAC money galore. Such a hard choice for the candidates you loathe.

@fathermcgruder @dalias @SeanJH @liferstate @benroyce

So you didn't vote for the lady because you didn't like her stance on Gaza? The trans community in Kansas is most grateful for your uncompromising stance I'm sure. People of Gaza also felt the impact it made.

@klegdixal @fathermcgruder @dalias @liferstate @benroyce

So you think it's okay to snipe Palestinian toddlers so long as the trans kids are fine in Kansas? You don't think the people who can ignore a genocide can also ignore the plight of trans kids in Kansas?

@SeanJH @fathermcgruder @dalias @liferstate @benroyce

I think that the choice that was made didn't do anything to help the toddlers in Palestine.

I also don't think there even is a way to unfuck the Palestine but that's beside the point.

@klegdixal @fathermcgruder @dalias @liferstate @benroyce

Exactly. MAGA or Harris was a vote for the same genocide. But there is a way to "unfuck the Palestinian" and that's to stop funding and providing impunity to their oppressor and genocidaires. And do you remember what Harris said about that?

https://www.democracynow.org/2024/8/30/harris_middle_east_gaza_israel_palestine

No Policy Change: In CNN Interview, Harris Refuses to Condition U.S. Military Support for Israel

We turn to Kamala Harris’s position on Israel’s war on Gaza, which many are calling a genocide. After she was asked about calls to condition U.S. arms shipments to Israel by CNN reporter Dana Bash, Harris refused to consider halting the flow of weapons and instead affirmed her support of Israel. This position violates both federal and international law, argues Palestinian American political analyst Yousef Munayyer, and, coupled with her campaign’s denial of a requested Palestinian American speaking spot from “uncommitted” voters at the DNC, he warns that “Harris could be worse than Biden” when it comes to U.S. support for Israel.

Democracy Now!

@SeanJH @klegdixal @fathermcgruder @dalias @liferstate

sean: you're a fake

you don't care about trans people, women, immigrants, etc

you're fine with them being brutalized

because your mind has been programmed on social media to obsess on this issue in a way to get us trump. a trollfarm psyop, and you are its victim. and obviously trump is worse for gaza. christ, look at the fucking news, moron

@SeanJH @fathermcgruder @dalias @liferstate @benroyce

What you just wrote reads "if Palestinians are buggered then fuck all the trans and Hispanic people in the US too".

Even if today every Israeli decided they're better off on the Moon, packed up and left – Palestine would still be fucked because what would come next would be a civil war followed by Hamas rule followed probably by a neighbourly intervention.

@SeanJH @dalias @liferstate @benroyce

@klegdixal Zionist spotted! 🔻

@fathermcgruder @klegdixal @SeanJH @dalias @liferstate

is it you?

are you revealing you work for likud trollfarm to suppress the left vote with toxic idealism psyop to get trump as netanyahu wanted?

@fathermcgruder @SeanJH @dalias @liferstate @benroyce if I don't agree with everything you say i must be one, mustn't i?
Netanyahu destroyed Israel's future too. Between international isolation, BDS and brain drain which goes on for years now and accelerates.
All that to avoid being tried for taking Qatari bribes.

@klegdixal @fathermcgruder @dalias @liferstate @benroyce

@SeanJH @klegdixal @fathermcgruder @dalias @liferstate

you think it's ok

you're fine with trump being president

and you certainly don't care about trans kids in kansas

Sean: you're a fake

and you're too stupid to even see how you're fake

@klegdixal @fathermcgruder @dalias @liferstate @benroyce

@SeanJH @klegdixal @fathermcgruder @dalias @liferstate

"You don't think the people who can ignore a genocide can also ignore the plight of trans kids in Kansas?"

that's you

you're fine with trump, so you're fine with genocide in gaza

and you obviously don't care about trans people, at all

you're a fucking fake

@SeanJH @liferstate @benroyce 🎯

@fathermcgruder @SeanJH @liferstate

how's that bullseye going under trump since he is now in power because so many didn't vote?

what has been achieved by not voting on what you *say* you care about?

@benroyce @fathermcgruder @SeanJH Musk's destruction of USAID has already killed tens of thousands of people. It's projected he could cause as many as 14 million unnecessary deaths, the deaths of people who would've lived if the food and medicine they depended on hadn't been ripped away (and in some cases literally set on fire!!). This is also a genocide, and it was 100% preventable. All you had to do was vote for the Black lady.

@liferstate @benroyce @SeanJH Excuse me, but there was more than one black lady on my 2024 ballot so you are just showing your whole ass right now.

@fathermcgruder @benroyce @SeanJH Sorry but I have better things to do than keep track of fringe vanity presidential campaigns.

@liferstate @benroyce @SeanJH Yeah, like having the nerve to scold people after your approved black lady candidate supported genocide and still lost.

@fathermcgruder @liferstate @SeanJH

how old are you

because you sound like a 14 year old edgelord

it's ok to admit you aren't on the left and that you enjoy MAGA brutalizing the vulnerable. rather than playing this stupid game of yours of fake concern

and stop pretending you care about gaza. you were fine with trump. that says everything we need to know about you and your lies