Mastodawn

"US Person": is a red flag for financial institutions in Europe

https://lemmy.world/post/44073145

"US Person": is a red flag for financial institutions in Europe - Lemmy.World

I saw some posts about american wanting to move to Europe; so just before you guys make the move, double-triple check insurances/banks, because literally every time I (not american) do smth financially related in France, they ask me if I am american? If yes, they won’t even open accounts/ give me insurance etc… Sounds discriminatory but apperently because legal I dont know if that expands to any other field

JohnnyEnzyme Mar 10

I hate to recommend the evil empire, but there’s a very good sub on this topic called r/AmerExit. Sometimes a community is too niche to exist on the Fediverse, and one must hold one’s nose and visit Reddit for certain content.

FarraigePlaisteaċ (sé/é)Mar 10

If you’re not American, why are you telling the institutions that you are?

Huh? Where i said that

FarraigePlaisteaċ (sé/é)Mar 10

My question was genuine. You wrote:

they ask me if I am american? If yes, they won’t even open accounts/ give me insurance etc…

And my misunderstanding is genuine? I dont know how you derived that fact from what i posted lol i never stated “i am american” to anyone, because it is not only factually false but also would bring me problems

floofloof Mar 10

How do you know that they won’t open an account if you say yes? Do you know people who have had this experience, or did the banks tell you that they would not provide these services for Americans?

The insurance told me, but you can google that information yourself, or simply call any bank in france usually they do have english speaking line

FarraigePlaisteaċ (sé/é)Mar 10

I believe you. My understanding of your post:

I’m not American

But I’m sometimes asked if I’m American

If “yes”, I face repercussions

Hence my question. That’s all.

Alright maybe my English is at fault. “If yes” meant to be: when I asked “what d happen in the hypothesis I was american”?

FarraigePlaisteaċ (sé/é)Mar 10

Well, my reading comprehension as also not the best some times so I’m definitely not innocent here. I can take things to literally (and not understand sarcasm). Thanks for clarifying. I hope I didn’t cause offence.

They propably slip explanation to the question like “Good, then we can open the account”

th3dogcow Mar 10

Financial institutions in Japan ask the same thing. It is because Americans have to pay tax to American even when they don’t live in America. It just means there is more paperwork apparently.

tetris11 Mar 10

Yup, I had no idea how fucked you guys were with the taxes thing until I learned you had to declare it twice if living abroad

th3dogcow Mar 10

Luckily I’m not one of those guys haha

tetris11 Mar 10

It’s not that funny tbh, they’re people being treated poorly by their government

myplacedk Mar 11

And yet they keep voting for anyone that likes to treat people poorly. I don’t know what to think anymore.

tetris11 Mar 11

That’s a really hasty (hazy?) generalization of the US. The 50501 riots should tell you that a large fraction of Americans are not for this, but their heavily gerrymandered voting system shackles them to it

myplacedk Mar 13

I know all that. But even if it’s not the majority, it’s still s looot of people.

MissJinx Mar 13

American citzenship is the OG subscription

IncogCyberSpaceUser Mar 10

That’s only if you make more than 100k, just for additional information.

Treczoks Mar 10

But they still have to report it, even if it is below.

And those forms are no joke.

Treczoks Mar 11

Probably the usual “US deals with foreigner” type of forms. Which threaten horrible consequences if you enter something wrong while at the same time offer only the letters a to z, digits, and a few interpunctation signs. Which means that I cannot enter my correct address in such a form. And for other people it is even worse, like people using Asian languages.

schnurrito Mar 10

AFAIK this has to do with US tax law and how it applies to income earned by US citizens abroad.

I have never answered yes to this, but would be surprised if it were impossible or even considerably harder for US persons to open bank accounts. I always thought this just triggered slightly different rules for the bank?

Lots of non-American banks don’t want to deal with the rules, so it’s easier for them to just say that they won’t open accounts for Americans.

thespcicifcocean Mar 10

american in europe here,

this is true. it’s very nearly impossible to open a bank account. There is exactly one bank in Switzerland who allows americans to open accounts, UBS. So far no banks in france have allowed me to open an account, even though I have a french residency permit. This makes it nearly impossible to take loans to buy things like houses or cars. Basically life here is impossible because being american fucking sucks.

PerogiBoi Mar 10

Renounce your citizenship.

thespcicifcocean Mar 10

i don’t have a second citizenship to fall back on, so i’d be stateless. also, i can’t afford to since you have to pay all the taxes on potential income for the next 10 years or something

Only people who make more than 200k/year or have more than 2 million in unrealized taxable assets have to pay an expatriation tax.

There is no paying future taxes as that’d be asinine.

thespcicifcocean Mar 10

TIL, i thought i read that 10 year tax thing somewhere. probably just bs i saw online and didn’t look into it

I would absolutely talk to an embassy or at least an international tax professional before making decisions and not rely on Lemmy.

diablomnky666 Mar 11

You only have to pay taxes for 10 years after expatriation if you set foot on US soil for more than 30 days during that period.

nutcase2690 Mar 11

It still has to be reported for 10 years after you renounce your citizenship. It is insane.

I want to add that renouncing your citizenship also isn’t a valid option for many during the stages they talked about

One of the hard requirements for renouncing your citizenship is having citizenship in another country, and that is easier said than done in many countries. Like for example, Canada, you have to be a perm resident in the country for four years and also have lived there for the past six, Mexico requires 5 years. most of the EU has 5-10 years as their resident requirement.

And that’s also ignoring the cost that they require of a citizen to renounce their Citizenship. It’s 2300+ USD to do if you manage to get it first try, and that can be denied still.

Once you are established somewhere else as a citizen, fully agree. But that’s defo easier said than done.

discocactus Mar 10

Open an account at Service CU out of NH. Designed to work in Europe (IBAN, free foreign ATMs, etc). Everyone who works for the state department gets it, and afaik it’s open to the public.

thespcicifcocean Mar 10

iban thing is nice, do you know if you can finance cars or homes? right now i have to have to drive around a beater because no european bank = no loan

Eat_Your_Paisley Mar 10

I’ve used ServiceCU for more than 20 years and yes you can buy cars and such through them

thespcicifcocean Mar 10

thanks! I’m going to check them out.

discocactus Mar 11

Never tried that. Worth emailing their rep probably.

You have residency, but do you have an official French ID, like a police ID? In Finland at least the residency permit does not count as a valid ID and you have to get a separate one (like a driver’s license or police ID) in order to for example open a bank account.

FosterMolasses Mar 11

This is crazy to learn about. Afaik no Americans in the UK have ever had issues opening bank accounts, even students.

CompactFlax Mar 10

It’s not discriminatory. They don’t have any legal obligation to serve citizens of foreign countries. When they do serve American citizens it triggers a whole lot of regulatory work, and it’s understandable they don’t want to do that unless you’re a high net worth individual (ie they make enough profit to cover that cost)

It’s not discriminatory.

I mean it quite literally is discriminatory, but it’s legal and justified discrimination.

CompactFlax Mar 10

Good point.

Limonene Mar 10

They do have an obligation to serve their own citizens. The US double tax reporting bullshit does apply to dual citizens.

The rule is not just for US citizens, but for a specific category called “US Person”, which is broader, and I think it includes anyone with any tie to the US. I believe having American parents, having had US citizenship even if you renounced it, or having had a greencard, also count. Though I don’t know the exact rules.

PlutoniumAcid Mar 10

Google FATCA, the US Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act.

Anyone anywhere in the world that is either US citizen, or a green card holder, or in other ways related to Murica, must pay US taxes. It’s insane, but the US tax system is powerful enough to bully all other countries into compliance.

Don’t get me started. 🤮

P03 Locke Mar 10

Citizenship isn’t free. You don’t get to have your cake and eat it, too.

This isn’t about Americans’ obligation to pay. It’s about hassle being forced upon foreign companies that have fuck-all to do with America (except for having American expat customers), to make them help collect the taxes on the US’ behalf.

floofloof Mar 10

Funny, because it’s free everywhere else. Sounds like a bit of a shithole country.

AllNewTypeFace Mar 10

Except for maybe eight countries. The US, North Korea and a few small Pacific island states, if I recall correctly.

FosterMolasses Mar 11

The US, North Korea and

Gotta love how these two countries are suddenly being used in the same sentence all the time lol

Wait, is there actually countries out there where you don’t pay taxes?

I’m guessing they must run off a very heavy business tax because the money has to come from somewhere in order for the government to be able to operate.

Or is it the gov just says “this will happen” and always has a blank check with no requirement to repay.

Don’t misunderstand my comment. I think it’s ridiculous for a country to expect you to pay taxes without living there. But like, taxes would be your citizenship burden

muusemuuse Mar 10

It literally is.

If you renounce your citizenship the US government still expects you to pay taxes for the next 10 fucking years. Do you think that sounds reasonable too?

theneverfox Mar 10

Haven’t heard that before, that’s wild

🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 🇮 Mar 10

I’m wondering how the fuck are they even gonna know you paid them or not. If I am living in Germany, with a German employer, why the fuck are they telling the US what my wages are?

Because otherwise none of their customers will be able to do business with the US. They would like their customers to be able to do business with the US, so their only options are to either follow reporting rules for US Persons, or avoid having US Persons as customer. It sucks, but it’s the US government forcing this on everybody, and because of the economic dominance of the US, the rest of the world has no choice but to comply.

FosterMolasses Mar 11

Ah, there’s the solution.

Stop doing business with the US.

I only see this as a win.