yesmanGun manufacturers are having a great year.
ForesterReally a question of whether you still trust the state apparatus to protect you and your loved ones from physical violence. For the right, the need to protect themselves was never anything but a bogeyman dreamt up by gun manufacturers and racist opportunists. The calculus may well differ for other folks given the current state of things and the lessons one might draw from history.
Indeed.
I was going to say that in a country where the rule of law is practised I wouldn’t feel inclined to own a firearm and I would argue no one else should.
On the other hand, watching how the US is on cusps of going full fascist, rounding up leftists, socialists, LGBTQ and people of all ethnicities, well fuck I would be arming the fuck up. I would be going full prepper. Shit I would be digging going full VC and digging tunnels in my back yard.
archonetRight, the only people who should be armed are the christian nationalists who are already armed to the teeth and itching to use them. As we all know, nothing bad ever happens when people without guns confront people with guns. It worked out great for the native Americans!
This is not a question of whether someone should or not, but a question of whether doing so will make them feel safer.
The answer to the first question is usually “yes”, but the answer to the second question is usually “no”.
If the state wants you dead, a gun and a couple boxes of ammo aren’t going to be more than a minor inconvenience to the state.
rljkeimigActually, I’m more concerned about how cool Nazis are again, than the actual government.
If the state wants you dead, a gun and a couple boxes of ammo aren’t going to be more than a minor inconvenience to the state.
I’d rather inconvenience the state than march quietly into the concentration camp, thank you.
I’ve studied enough of my history to know that, whatever ignoble end awaits me at the end of a fascist’s gun barrel will still be vastly preferable to whatever horrors await in a camp. I refuse to die in one, outright and by any means necessary, even if that means dying on my front lawn instead.
MontaggeExactly. This idea that indigenous people are savages who will go up against an ar-15 with a bow and arrow is nonsense. Even going back to the 1600s there are MANY reports of going from “What is that scary noise maker” to “I want me one… and I can get it off this dead fool”.
And they used them to great effect. Often against even more heavily armed “whites”.
Until the military rolled up.
Gun nuts just don’t want to understand (probably because NRA TV doesn’t talk about it…). If privately owned firearms were a threat to the government, they would be banned. That is WHY gun control happened (no, it is not all about those uppity Blacks buying glocks on their way to march with Dr King). Many of our modern day laws can be traced back to fears of another “wild west” or even 20s/30s where “gangsters” had literal machine guns and were better equipped than the national guard.
But now? A designated marksman will blow your head off while you are ranting about how you are a sovereign citizen. It doesn’t take THAT many people to flank your compound and light you up. And if your militia DOES get your Wildcats on? Mortars and drones and tanks.
Privately owned firearms are only a threat to civilians.
You are comparing a professional army to civilians. Like, hell, if other side has a gun and you don’t - you will loose. If you have a gun but other side a tank - you will loose again. The point here is to make the confrontation more equal against people equipped with handguns and not anti-tank missiles.
But, there is 1 thing in what civilians have a leverage - they run most of economy and infrastructure. If we are talking about confrontation between government and civilians, civilians don’t even have to use guns. They can simply gather resources and then stop doing anything except surviving for a few days. This means that no factories will be working, no commercial transporting, no offices are running. Yes, this is a very unlikely scenario but it will literally cause huge problems to the country without the violence. And what your army gonna do? Come to you home and force you to go to work?
The other thing is if we are dealing with other armed civilians, then having guns can benefit. But only if you can use them. And yes, you are right that having a gun in home without strict discipline leads to more casualties.
So, what I think is that owning guns has bad and good sides, but you don’t even need them in most cases.
You are comparing a professional army to civilians.
And who do you think is going to be coming after you if you build up a militia and start screaming “Wildcats”?
And who do we see, time and time again, side with the fat white kids who crossed state lines to murder some n****rs?
The point here is to make the confrontation more equal against people equipped with handguns and not anti-tank missiles.
So you might even say
Privately owned firearms are only a threat to civilians.
The “1600s” could be 200 years after the Spanish arrived.
But now? A designated marksman will blow your head off while you are ranting about how you are a sovereign citizen. It doesn’t take THAT many people to flank your compound and light you up. And if your militia DOES get your Wildcats on? Mortars and drones and tanks.
Tell that to Afghanistan.
The Cherokee were disarmed just prior to the Tail of Tears. They had to surrender their weapons as invaders broke into their homes, destroyed their crops, and split families apart. They were then reliant on the federal government’s soldiers, who rounded them up into camps until they were marched to what was to be only their land forever, Indian Territory. Now Oklahoma. Where we still fight the state and governor Stitt for our treaty rights.
There are still Cherokee in North Carolina because one man, Tsali (pronounced like Charlie), fought back when his wife was being stabbed by a soldiers bayonet and killed him. He then led survivors to the mountains for a hard couple of years of starvation until the government relented. They worked with Yonaguska, a chief, to reach a diplomatic solution to allow the refugees to stay in their homelands. If they executed Tsali and all of his children do no one else would rise up.
They killed him and his son for trying to defend his home and family. They killed many others in the camps and the trail itself. Many children were stolen and enslaved. But the Cherokee wanted a reasonable, diplomatic solution that didn’t involve violence when the US government absolutely wanted all of those things.
I’ll keep my guns.
I think I will be dead by that point. Not sure if you read my previous comment or not.
The idea is we don’t want to ever have to use them, but having them guarantees that any paramilitary leader or fascist movement knows that forceful removal of dissidents will mean a door-to-door meat grinder, and that is a VERY strong deterrent. Read history.
I mean, unless you think you won’t be considered a dissident… not like they’re not ALREADY making databases of people critical of the administration.
I hope to keep my guns locked away forever. I WANT them to be useful.
In the meantime, figure out what your plan is if this whole shitshow continues to go south, or if you think they’ll say you’re “one of the good ones” and let you go for some reason.
I will take a different route here and remind everyone that the natives who did steal a limited number of guns, were fierce fighters who punched way above their weight before being disarmed by overwhelming odds. For their limited numbers and lack of training in firearms, lack of ammunition and support, they killed a LOT of settlers and soldiers, with and without guns. There’s a reason we name all our goddamn military weapons after native tribes, and it sure as shit ain’t for woke points.
If I’m going to be murdered by mask-wearing thugs in my own country for having an opinion, I will make them fucking remember me and I will be honored to be thought of in the same breath as the native americans who fought to the bitter end.
DiplomjodlerIt’s not going to make you safer. Best you can hope for is to take some off the motherfuckers with you when they come for you.
There’s a lot more of us than there are of them.
If even 10% of us take one of them down with us, they’ll run out of door-kickers very quickly.
That is literally the idea, nobody expects to be able to stand up to the US military if they get deployed against us, but it will absolutely keep that worst-case from happening if the people leading that military realize that every house, every door they kick down, will have a shotgun pointed at the door.
As long as they know that a militarization of our domestic society will lead to a door-to-door meat grinder, they won’t commit to that approach.
Yeah you’re right, instead I should trust that the police will use restraint, arrive instantly, and do the right thing 🤡
A dog is much better protection than a gun.
Dogs get shot.
Life isn’t a video game.
Ask a real world security professional and they’ll tell you to get a dog.
A gun salesman will tell you that if you buy a gun you automatically become Annie Oakley
LexamI think we’re talking two different things. I’m not saying to buy a giant handgun and wait for robbers to come into your house so you can blast them away.
I’ve known people who fantasize about that. They are gross.
What I’m saying is that the police in the United States have a history of shooting dogs, so they do absolutely nothing for you anti-fascist security. They would absolutely help against theft and robbery because most robbers want to be quick and quiet. Police don’t care.
AzzuI have a dog. I’m also surrounded by fascists in the deep south. I’m keeping guns because I’d rather live than die for some abstract moral point you’re trying to make about how we should live in a fantasy land where people in fascists states don’t need guns.
Ask a real world security professional and they’ll tell you to get a dog.
I am a (former) real world security professional.
And I’ll say that a gun is much easier to carry around with you than a dog.
Good boy!
What exactly do you think we’re arming to defend against? Roving bands of goblins? Crackheads? Do you even read the news? Do you understand politics at all and the consequences? Do you KNOW that nations have fallen to authoritarians in the past, or does that seem like more “nothing ever happens” daydreaming and worldbuilding?
Look up MOVE.
Philadelphia police bombed a house in the middle of the city.
If it comes to an armed conflict, I really doubt that the folks who couldn’t get Bernie nominated are going to win a firefight.
Stop living in videogame land.
Stop living in videogame land.
If that’s how you think this works, you’re the one with the vision of some video game firefight. We are arming up as a message, not because we think we will win against a military force. But so that if electoral politics fails, we have power to back up our resistance. “Door-to-door meat grinder” is the worst five words any military leader wants to hear and we need to make that the standard our political currency is built on.
The whole fucking reason that the hardline conservatives in the US have taken so goddamn much ground and got their clown messiah elected is exactly because they understand we don’t live in a star-trek utopia and have embraced POWER to back up their demands, they carry the flag and own guns and declare their willingness to fight for the things they want.
What are YOU doing? Asking for civil discourse? What era do you think we’re entering? Get your head out of your ass and understand that people braver than you are willing to fight for the same thing you want, so you get to decide what role you play in getting there.
Nothing your wrote makes me think you could handle an actual gunfight.
that is a stupid reply, I’m not engaging anymore and won’t see another brain-dead reply. I hope you never have to worry about this and would kindly prefer you keep your stupid-hole closed when adults are talking about these matters.
Nothing you wrote makes me think you could handle a face to face discussion
So what’s your plan? Just give in?
“I think we should run into the cannon’s mouth and choke the enemy with our dead.”
“That sounds like an awful plan.”
“So what’s your plan, just give in??”
I didn’t say that. I’m just a passerby reading your conversation and noticing that you haven’t put any ideas forward.
I’m just a passerby reading your comment.
You’re obviously following the issue.
What’s your plan?
To keep living in Canada and keep my gun license up to date in case your country’s bullshit leaks all the way over.
Not my first choice. I never wanted a gun. Now what are your ideas?
Frist step is to call out any idiot who thinks that life is a video game and they can just buy a gun and instantly overthrow the 0.01%
I’ll just go ahead and ignore your not-so-clever-or-subtle insults and deflection. What’s after that? What are you doing to help?
Let’s hear some ideas, because trust me, no one wants it to come to violence, but the other side has already murdered people. So what’s the plan?
We’re still on Step One.
Any ideas how to help us? Because you’re wrong, a lot of people think violence is the only thing that will work
Well, I’ve abandoned spending money on anything American.
I don’t know what else I could do, as a working class Canadian, so I’ve taken training and purchased a firearm as a last resort in preparation for the worst.
Aren’t there supposed to be checks and balances? The biggest thing would be to vote in your primaries and the election, I guess. Currently, contact your elected officials and ask them why the fuck they’re letting all this happen. Do everything you can through the proper channels before resorting to violence.
But if they won’t play by the rules and come for you, then I don’t think you need to play by the rules either. Telling people they’re wrong for preparing for the worst isn’t helpful.
Telling people they’re wrong for preparing for the worst isn’t helpful.
“There’s a chance of an earthquake. You should store tons of unstable explosives in your basement. That’s the best way to prepare!”
Well I hope you enjoy your time in the gulag because I’d rather be fucking dead.
Let’s hear some ideas, because trust me, no one wants it to come to violence,
Your words.
So, no one wants it to come to violence, but violence is inevitable because you say so?
I’m safer facing the enemy alone, than in a mob of untrained wanna-be Annie Oakleys
Elaborate.