QuixoticgeekMar 8

It's international women's day. Lots of articles and toots are being posted about women in various industries, sports etc...

An unfortunately far too common phrasing will be to use the word "females" instead of women, or girls, or women and girls. Now there's a strong grammatical argument that says female is an adjective and should only be used as such. "Female engineer" "female president" "female assassin". But this hides a much darker historical reason why we shouldn't use "females"

1/n

Show threadQuixoticgeek

The rest of this thread is behind a CW.

Back in the 1800's a surgeon in the US was doing some unethical research that would go on to form the basis of the medical discipline of gynaecology. To do this, he experimented on white women, and black slave women. When publishing his findings, he didn't want to humanise the black women he was using as test subjects. So he described them as "females". This is the origin of the usage.

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Mar 8 at 2:08pmWeb
Show threadQuixoticgeekMar 8

So everytime someone uses "females" as a noun, they are reinforcing the dehumanisation of women that is built on unethical experiments on black women.

This is international women's day. I'm not going to name the evil bastard in question. We should learn from his mistakes. Not hold him in any regard. Even if a item of medical equipment most women become intimately familiar with us named after him. Some even calm him "the father of gynaecology".

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Show threadQuixoticgeekMar 8

So everytime you hear someone use female as a noun. Call it out. Tell people of the history that is being reinforced here.

So what language do we use instead? That's in the next toot without a CW.
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Show threadQuixoticgeekMar 8

So what do we use instead? Well as I've screamed at many a TV, Radio, and in some cases conference presenters.

Woman. The word you're looking for is woman!

If the person in question is an adult, then say woman or women. "We need more women in leadership". If it's female children? The word is girl. "Girls should go to school". But what if it's both adults and children. Then the words your looking for is "women and girls" i.e. "Women and girls deserve equality"

It's that simple.

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Show threadQuixoticgeekMar 8

So on this international women's day, do your bit to make our language just a little bit less hostile to women and girls. Consign the use of female as a noun to the history books were it belongs. Even if you were fine ignoring the frankly horrific history, you sound like a flipping Ferenghi...

Oh, and while you're at it guys is not gender neutral, but that's a different thread.

Happy international women's day!
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Show threadEm & future cats 🇺🇦🐈🏳️‍🌈Mar 8
@quixoticgeek Exactly, we don’t go around saying “male” this or “males” that. We call them “men” “boys” etc. it’s not often that you hear the word “male” in any sentence unless specifically referring to anatomy and psyche 😹
Now that it’s been pointed out, it makes me quite mad and I will continue to “adjust” my and the conversation around me with this in mind. (I have already had to do this when people talk about the Epstein files, they were girls not “women”)
Show threadQuixoticgeekMar 8
@em_and_future_cats oh yes. I really hate the way the media use "underage women" when they mean girls. Girls can't consent. It's not sexy with underage women. It's raping girls. The media are trying to disguise this via language
Show threadEm & future cats 🇺🇦🐈🏳️‍🌈Mar 8
@quixoticgeek Exactly 💯
I call people out on this frequently. Now I know that I can’t let “female” stand either 😾
Show threadGulfofMexicoMar 9
@quixoticgeek @em_and_future_cats Indeed. The terms underage woman or underage man make no sense whatsoever. A woman or a man is a person who is legally considered responsible enough to make their own decisions. I am curious, though. How does the media report when a legal minor is tried as an adult in a criminal case? That might be the only time I could imagine the term making sense. If a court deems a fourteen year old boy to be a man for trial purposes, “underage man” might make sense. However, I’ve never seen that usage in such cases. The corporate media might be a little squeamish about declaring boys to be men. Those boys are usually locked up with older hardened criminals. In that environment, those boys are considered men for purposes of prison rape. They are legally men, but emotionally boys.
Show threadEm & future cats 🇺🇦🐈🏳️‍🌈Mar 9
@CAman @quixoticgeek yes, this is also a problem. I usually hear the phrase “young man” in those instances, or “adolescent” or “teenage boy”… however when it comes to girls it’s either “young woman” “young female” or “adolescent female” which again has more wrongs to the phrase than not. There are very rare instances when you hear “teenage girl” or “young girl”.
Our system of language is important for clarifying and reiterating how people are treated. It needs to be adjusted, and daily.
Show threadEm & future cats 🇺🇦🐈🏳️‍🌈Mar 9
@CAman @quixoticgeek
Especially in the context of law and reporting.
Show threadGulfofMexicoMar 9
@em_and_future_cats @quixoticgeek Especially.
Show threadBodhipaksaMar 9

@em_and_future_cats @quixoticgeek On the contrary, expressions like "male doctor," "male nurse," "male jockey" or indeed "male" anything are very common. A quick search online will confirm this.

But I agree entirely about the inappropriateness of referring to "under-age women." This simply acts as a smoke-screen for the rape of minors.

Show threadthomastc | frozenfractalMar 8
@quixoticgeek Ferengi are my first association actually. It's very fitting that the show writers chose that word, considering how *they* treat "their" women...
Show threadGalbinus CaeliMar 8
@thomastc @quixoticgeek It was an intentional choice by the screenwriters to illustrate the backwardness of that culture/species. More of that 'woke' Star Trek that we love.
Show threadOlga Lovick (she/her)Mar 8
@quixoticgeek I’ll add one thought to your excellent thread: “female” refers to biological sex. “Women and girls” refers to gender, which is social.
Show threadQuixoticgeekMar 8
@transitionalaspect biological sex is as much a construct as gender.
Show threadRaul PortalesMar 8

@quixoticgeek interesting story!
I always disliked the term anyway, I just ask myself: would I use the word "male" here? If the answer is no, then don't use female.

Spoiler alert, using male always sounds wrong.

Show threadtuban_muzuruMar 8

@Sh41 @quixoticgeek

I picked up "female" in the US Army. Its use should be confined to the abstract designation - of or pertaining to all women.

Its use as a noun is, as @quixoticgeek has already said but bears repeating - makes you sound like horny little Nog the Ferengi.

Show threadCourt Cantrell does not complyMar 9
@tuban_muzuru @Sh41 @quixoticgeek You're thinking of Quark. Nog was his nephew who was best friends with Jake Sisko and eventually became a successful Starfleet officer. ☺️🖖
Show threadtuban_muzuruMar 9

@courtcan @Sh41 @quixoticgeek

I stand corrected. I am conflating the two. Quark and the Rules of Acquisition, I used to see that pinned up in people's cubes....

Show threadCourt Cantrell does not complyMar 9
@tuban_muzuru @Sh41 @quixoticgeek I could see myself posting those rules ironically...but only if it were clear to people that I was being deeply sarcastic! 😬
Show threadtuban_muzuruMar 9

@courtcan @Sh41 @quixoticgeek

We are talking about a guy who would stop as he was walking down the corridor, lift his right foot and fart.

And start walking again. That guy.

Show threadmuninnhuginnMar 8
@quixoticgeek Thank you! Especially for the "guys" reminder! I loathe that.
Show threadCourt Cantrell does not complyMar 9
@quixoticgeek I always think of the Ferengi when this subject comes up. I don't think it's an accident their creators gave them that particular linguistic habit to go along with the rest of their misogyny. ✌️🤘🖖
Show threadfritzoidsMar 8

@quixoticgeek

we know the names of three of the women he experimented on.
Anarcha Westcott, Lucy, and Betsey.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mothers_of_Gynecology_Movement

Mothers of Gynecology Movement - Wikipedia

Show threadM.S. Bellows, Jr.Mar 8
@quixoticgeek I'm on board with your sentiment here, but what's the source for this etymology? It looks like the word "female" has been used as a noun far farther back than the 1800s. https://www.etymonline.com/word/female Really asking.
Female - Etymology, Origin & Meaning

"woman, human being of the sex which brings forth young," from Old French femelle "woman,… See origin and meaning of female.

etymonline
Show threadQuixoticgeekMar 8
@msbellows maybe it's more "popularising the term". When I get home I'll find the book I referenced
Show threadTiggyMar 8

@quixoticgeek

An interesting idea, but it originated much, much earlier in Europe. Derived from Latin and frequently used here.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/female

I'd prefer not to use any word that adds us to a male word, eg male to female, man to women, he to she. There are languages that are less patriarchal, so English adopted words such as uncle and aunt, son and daugther. Or ones which both have a suffix or prefix such as father and mother.

Female - Etymology, Origin & Meaning

"woman, human being of the sex which brings forth young," from Old French femelle "woman,… See origin and meaning of female.

etymonline
Show threadQuixoticgeekMar 8
@tiggy that link has nothing in it to suggest that the English use as a noun is that old. Or I'm mis reading.
Show threadTiggyMar 8

@quixoticgeek

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female

Female - Wikipedia

Show threadBodhipaksaMar 9
@quixoticgeek I thought this to be extremely unlikely as an origin for the use of "females" as a term to refer to women, and a quick search on Google Books found plenty of uses of that term from the 1700's. ("Tender-hearted females" — who were audience members at a play, from 1794, and "females addicted to censoriousness" from 1768, for example).