AnsonMar 8
The Witchy Bitches
Person in my DM's, "hey did you see XYZ thing so and so posted?" No, no actually I did not, and do you know why? Because there were at least 5 hashtags at the very beginning of said post and I'm reading everything on a 40 cell braille display, which means I get 40 characters at once before I need to scroll.... So if you choose to put more than say, 3 hashtags in the beginning of your post I'm probably moving on because my time for spending on the interwebs is not limitless... people are, of course free to do what they want but... If you are using hashtags you obviously want engagement of some kind. So putting them at the end might be the better bet from an accessibility standpoint. #JustSaying
Mar 7 at 2:40pmWeb
Show threadUnclePJMar 7
@pawpower Good to know, thanks!
Show threadGinaMar 7
@pawpower I guess I'm lazy. I rarely use hashtags. Sometimes I might if I post a Youtube, But then I even forget. I didn't even really use them on Twitter when that was a thing.
Show threadJamminJerryMar 7
@NightDrake @pawpower you are like me. while when I use them, they are in the sentence, I don't use them very often at all.
Show threadGeorgiana BrummellMar 7
@pawpower I agree with you. I use speech, and it's still very annoying. I usually put mine at the end, though very rarely, I will put them in the middle of sentences. I do try to limit that, though, and only do it when there's a good reason for it.
Show threadx0Mar 8
@dandylover1 @pawpower This was a protracted debate that arrived at no pure conclusion which FediTips talked about, but yes acceptable solutions are a string at the end of the post or spliced in sentences. Or possibly both. So long as it isn't a bunch of words in sequence in the sentence, it shouldn't be that problematic yeah? Speech adds a syllable so it should be somewhat rare, in Braille it's one character no? Or maybe two because it isn't a real number sign.
Show threadThe Witchy BitchesMar 8
@x0 @dandylover1 In braille, it is two characters. Yes, I can't speak for the aspect of using speech as I am deafblind.
Show threadJamminJerryMar 7
@pawpower actually the way I do hashtags is I use them in thsentences I am writing. I don't do it for interaction though, meaning I don't use a certain one, because I want people to react to it, but a company might be watching for a hashtag, so they wouold see it if I use it I personlly don't like a whole string of them at the beginning or the end, but at least for me personally if they are in the sentence that doesn't bother me at all. then again maybe I am just an oddball.
Show threadD.Hamlin.MusicMar 7
@pawpower Yep, I'll use inline ones if they make sense, but otherwise put them at the end along with group mentions.
Show threadColin B.πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦Mar 7
@pawpower a year ago someone played an audio clip of what text to speech readers did with inline hashtags. It was incredibly jarring, and I've sworn to put all tags at the end ever since.
Show threadRose Puckey πŸ΄σ §σ ’σ ³σ £σ ΄σ ΏπŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆMar 8

@swordgeek @pawpower Thank you, I was hoping someone would mention this. I've been reading this thread wondering why so many people are finding ways not to do something so simple as putting # tags at the end of a toot and not at the beginning for braille users and not in the text for screen reader users. It isn't a debate, it's a request from someone who uses braille to read your toots - or not. It's like listening to a bunch of 5 year old children trying to see how far they can push the boundaries.

I can't personally comment on braille but can with screen reader users. Imagine, if you can, having a toot read to you and every time there's a # sign, you hear HESHTAG! Even if you can see well enough to read toots (which I can from a distance when everything is larger in a TV screen) and you need to use a dark mode for the contrast, all the needy # tags blend unto the background.

These are some of the reasons I'm hardly ever here any more. The insistence of hashtags at the beginning and in the toot ruins the entire toot.

Show threadTwoowls Elt πŸ¦‰ πŸ¦‰Mar 7
@pawpower thanks for sharing this, I didn’t know about this. #learning
Show threadJoe BrockmeierMar 8
@pawpower I typically put hashtags at the end. Two or three max, usually. Is that acceptable?
Show threadThe Witchy BitchesMar 8
@jzb That's actually how I do it. That way I can still put the hashtags at the end so more people will see it, but the actual content of my message is right at the top and accessible right away.
Show threadJoe BrockmeierMar 8
@pawpower cool. Thanks!
Show threadMauve πŸ‘πŸ’œMar 8
@pawpower Is having them interleaved also inconvenient? I prefer it to having them at the end to save on character count.
Show threadThe Witchy BitchesMar 8
@mauve No, not unless there's like more than five or so but if it's part of the message it's just a word and there's an extra couple of braille characters for the hashtag it's not bad.
Show threadMauve πŸ‘πŸ’œMar 8
@pawpower good to know ty! Mind if I ask some questions about your tech setup? I'm planning to migrate away from screens in the near future and it's a bit overwhelming.
Show threadThe Witchy BitchesMar 8
@mauve Not at all feel free to ask I'm happy to help
Show threadMauve πŸ‘πŸ’œMar 8
@pawpower Cool! Are there mastodon clients you know of that are accessibility focused? Any tips navigating all this data? I found keyboard nav is really tedious cause all the posts have lots of focusable areas and no easy way to skip to older pages quickly πŸ˜…
Show threadThe Witchy BitchesMar 8
@mauve It depends on your method of access e.g. pc, Mac, iPhone android etc. i use iPhone and the clients I like best are ona and Toot. I also find mute filters are your friend because they help weed out stuff you aren't interested in. Such as for me if people are in the habit of live tooting tv programs or advertising radio shows or bible verses of the day etc. I create a mute filter with either the hashtag or particular words. And it takes a way a lot of the things that aren't meaningful for me.
Show threadMauve πŸ‘πŸ’œMar 9
@pawpower Good to know, thank you. I'm on Linux (using the web interface) and on Android with Tusky. They've been so so. I'll try muting more of my timeline. I've mostly taken to unfollowing folks that post too much and making more focused "lists" for specific topics. Might just need to cut down a lot more to make it manageable. πŸ˜… Is a braille display useful for skimming through large amounts of text? I've been curious to learn.
Show threadRose Puckey πŸ΄σ §σ ’σ ³σ £σ ΄σ ΏπŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆMar 8
@pawpower @mauve With a screen reader, every time there's # in the toot, the reader says HESHTAG! Why not hashtag I have no idea. It does make it very difficult to follow so clumping them at the end, for me at least, is much kinder and lots less confusing.
Show threadMauve πŸ‘πŸ’œMar 9
@RosePuckey Interesting! Which localization is your reader's voice set to? I usually use espeak on linux with US English. I bet different accents say it differently. Noted regarding clumping at the end. I try to limit my number of tags to just one or two to keep them from being too annoying.
Show threadEdelruth, PBS Passport HolderMar 8

@pawpower

I am so happy right now about my at-the-bottom hashtag policy, and also my soft rule for myself of no more than three.

They are hard on the eye, especially when numerous, and separately, when they are within the text.

Also, just saying.
#HighFive

Show threadRose Puckey πŸ΄σ §σ ’σ ³σ £σ ΄σ ΏπŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆMar 8
@Edelruth @pawpower Thank you. They are hard in the hearing too when the toot is brain read to you. 😊
Show threadOctavia Con Amore  Succubard's LibraryMar 8
@pawpower @OllieBranch people put hashtags at the beginning?  the fuck? 
Show threadRose Puckey πŸ΄σ §σ ’σ ³σ £σ ΄σ ΏπŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆMar 8
@OctaviaConAmore @pawpower @OllieBranch πŸ‘†sadly yes, they do.
Show threadSpeed demon πŸ‡ͺπŸ‡Ί πŸ‡³πŸ‡΄πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦πŸ‡΅πŸ‡ΈMar 8
@OctaviaConAmore I have an example, (in Norwegian, so I won't link) , where I'm asking a question about a topic, and made the topic into two hashtags, like:
" # FOSS and # BankID , anybody know?" . I was quite pleased with that myself, but I'm open to criticism. @pawpower @OllieBranch
Show threadJupiter RowlandMar 8
@The Witchy Bitches Hashtags should always be at the very bottom of the post in one line that contains nothing else. That way, at least some Mastodon clients can hide the whole line of hashtags and show the hashtags elsewhere. Also, Mastodon's own Web frontend generates actual tags from a hashtag-only bottom line.

Both is neither possible with hashtags elsewhere in the post nor when there's something else than hashtags in the last line.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Hashtag #Hashtags #HashtagMeta #CWHashtagMeta #FediTips
Netzgemeinde/Hubzilla

Show threadcuan_knaggsMar 8
@pawpower as a sighted person, i take the hashtags at the start to be a signal to scroll past as well
Show threadddiluted1Mar 8

@pawpower IMO hashtags should be used as a tagline or summary hence should always appear after the message body. Really not sure why people feel they need to put them up front and centre.

#hashtags #LeaveM2Last

Show threadSpeed demon πŸ‡ͺπŸ‡Ί πŸ‡³πŸ‡΄πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦πŸ‡΅πŸ‡ΈMar 8
@pawpower How do you feel about it if the tags are meaningful words, part of a readable sentence? Do the hash-marks interfere so much with the flow of a sentence that it becomes unreadable?
Show threadThe Witchy BitchesMar 8
@hakona That's fine for me but I know hearing blind folks who use the voice to read to them find it problematic. But I can't speak to that particular experience.
Show threadMoMar 8

@pawpower @RosePuckey

I usually make sure that all the hashtags are together at the end of my posts now, after reading something similar recently.
I broke my own rule today πŸ₯Ή but, at least, I was aware of it.

Something else I discovered by accident. If you're including an image, put two carriage returns at the end of your toot and before the hashtags. That way, they all appear neatly below the image.

I consider ALT tags to be essential but I'm just mentioning that in passing.