AlexMar 5
Nina Kalinina

Please excuse me while I'm having a little existential crisis, lol.

And if that wasn't bad enough, Mozilla has embraced AI (in its code, too), while Linux considers relaxing AI code policy and has some examples of patches co-authored by LLMs.

I am still yet to think hard about what I want to do about it. But the world I knew is no more.

Mar 5 at 11:10pmWeb
Show threadNina KalininaMar 5
This is prompted by the news of python's chardet being completely "rewritten" by GenAI to replace its original LGPL with MIT, by the way. It's free for all now, it seems.
Show thread🌸 lumi-nhac    🌱Mar 5
@nina_kali_nina that whole thing is so ridiculous

you can't "clean room" reimplement a project with a slop machine trained on the project itself
Show threadmmu_manMar 5
@nina_kali_nina we'll soon look at AI-less projects the same way scientists look at pre nuclear test iron… 😒
Show threadzbrownMar 5

@nina_kali_nina it's been suggested I should start a custom distro which will then increasingly ‘lag behind’

if being ‘current’ means dealing with this nonsense, I'm fine with being behind, actually

Show threadNina KalininaMar 5
@zbrown tbh maybe it's not a bad idea, but then maybe it makes more sense to focus on OSes that are explicitly anti-LLM, like NetBSD...
Show threadzbrownMar 5

@nina_kali_nina right? like it was said to me in a ‘just be chill with AI’ context, but it's genuinely not a bad idea, we could fork g-b-m and have ‘GNOME OS’ build that just never updates harfbuzz or whatever else turns to slop

if only one had the resources to do it

Show threadBen 🏳️‍⚧️🍉Mar 6

@nina_kali_nina @zbrown NetBSD was my first *nix¹, maybe I should have a look at it again

¹the first one I ran on my own hardware. My first experience was with HP-UX at a year in industry placement in the late '90s

Show threadmatthewcroughanMar 9
Yes, obscurity has gained new selling points. I was always curious about these things anyway. Perhaps I can switch to guix.
Show threadKirtai 🏳️‍⚧️Mar 5
@nina_kali_nina
Wait a second. Isn't the output of GenAI supposed to be public domain?
Show threadNina KalininaMar 5
@kirtai well, maybe, but I'm afraid the courts in the US are going to be on the side of "big tech" if it ever goes to the court again. And even if it is accepted to be public domain, it isn't much better conceptually: the FOSS movement will be mostly destroyed by slop; if a slop machine can strip away the copyright, the copyright is unenforceable
Show threadKirtai 🏳️‍⚧️Mar 5
@nina_kali_nina
Sadly true but reminding these "developers" that everything they produce this way is unlicensable may be useful to deter them.
Show threadF4GRX SébastienMar 6
@nina_kali_nina @kirtai https://www.techspot.com/news/111553-us-supreme-court-not-interested-enforcing-copyright-ai.html it was for pics, but code is similar.
Show threadF4GRX SébastienMar 6
@kirtai @nina_kali_nina the US supreme court ruled again recently that LLM output is NOT copyrightable.
Show threadJuggoMar 7
@f4grx @kirtai @nina_kali_nina
If Microslop, and other big tech companies are writing 30% of it's code with AI, couldn't we demand they release those lines under public domain?
Show thread🌸 lumi-nhac    🌱Mar 5
@nina_kali_nina it's ridiculous how slop machines are spreading into everything. we really need a unified resistance against it, not just with programmers, but also with artists, writers, translators, etc

usage of genai should be shamed
Show threadVictoria🏳️‍⚧️Mar 5

@lumi @nina_kali_nina

usage of genai should be shamed

I'm sorry, but that's talking as if there wasn't immediately an outrage whenever someone says they used LLM for something.

Show thread🌸 lumi-nhac    🌱Mar 5
@tragivictoria @nina_kali_nina not enough outrage
Show threadVictoria🏳️‍⚧️Mar 5
@lumi @nina_kali_nina the only thing more I can think of is sending death threats, but that's not really great, innit.
Show thread🌸 lumi-nhac    🌱Mar 5
@tragivictoria @nina_kali_nina organized resistance against such projects, is what i'm thinking of

death threats accomplish nothing
Show threadNina KalininaMar 5
@lumi @tragivictoria yep, boycott maybe can work (to an extent)
Show threadNina KalininaMar 5
@tragivictoria @lumi yeah, let's not, please
Show threadOutfrostMar 6

@lumi @nina_kali_nina @tragivictoria we're gonna have to get so much louder and more annoying about this

people who i followed on twitch cause i thought they were cool are now slop sludging *jam games*

i genuinely think bullying sloperators is morally correct. their excuses are always such slop too, they're liars cause they'll never admit they just wanna do the bad thing and don't have a singular fuck to give about the world around them

Show threadNina KalininaMar 6
@outfrost @lumi @tragivictoria maybe "bullying" isn't right but boycotting definitely is
Show threadNina KalininaMar 5
@tragivictoria @lumi it depends on the social circle. There are lots and lots of people either celebrating the torment nexus or trusting the BBC's (or worse, the government's) coverage of it.
Show threadMoses IzumiMar 5
@lumi @nina_kali_nina
May this be a time where the least UNIX-minded tech pundits you've ever seen rapidly pivot toward NetBSD, just for being the first OS to refuse slopmachine code.

(I first heard of their policy through Gamers Nexus)
(I'm just some yokel who likes KDE)
Show threadNina KalininaMar 5
@moses_izumi @lumi nod nod, I've tried *BSD recently after a long pause, maybe I should double down on it, too
Show threadStilic 🇫🇷Mar 6
@nina_kali_nina @moses_izumi @lumi There's FreeBSD too it seems
https://www.heise.de/en/news/FreeBSD-policy-AI-generated-source-code-No-thanks-10634141.html
FreeBSD policy: AI-generated source code ? No, thanks!

The FreeBSD Core Team has issued a clear rejection of LLM-based source code contributions. It is thus following other open source projects.

heise online
Show threadMoses IzumiMar 6
@nina_kali_nina @lumi
Would be surreal to see sensationalist/clickbaity cybersecurity people adopting it en-masse.
Show threadHaelwenn /элвэн/ Mar 6
@moses_izumi @lumi @nina_kali_nina Yeah although given the level of LLM-contamination across architectural foss projects part of me is also like "Wow, Plan9 and other fully-independent self-hosted systems are looking a lot more interesting now".
(Like makes me wonder how independent Genode is as well)
Show threaddmi 💽 Mar 6

@lanodan @moses_izumi @lumi @nina_kali_nina very interesting side-effect of this whole clusterfuck: writing my own software becomes much more enticing than it already was.

really tempted to go back to my osdev projects. i won’t get a general-purpose OS out of them, but. who cares! maybe I can make a bunch of single-purpose things

and maybe i should actually try out plan9… their propaganda page already sold me

Show threadMoses IzumiMar 6
@domi @lanodan @lumi @nina_kali_nina
My dream is to at some point daily-drive BSD, 9front or a minimal Linux, paired with some kind of Wine jail to bridge the compatibility gaps.
- cheaper than a VM, while still having 3D acceleration (even in windowed mode)
- never used Cairo Shell, but it seems to incorporate most of the good things about Linux GUIs

not unlike what @hikari 's Loss32 project is striving toward (wine as a primary Linux shell)
Show threaddmi 💽 Mar 6

@moses_izumi @lanodan @lumi @nina_kali_nina i’ve done NetBSD for a few days on a pentium 1. it worked much better than had any right for (and made me discover that my very conservative software choices make my default dotfiles usable on a p1 with almost no changes)

you should try it! drivers are a fuck, otherwise it’s really pleasant. the docs are great

Show threadHaelwenn /элвэн/ Mar 6
@domi @moses_izumi @lumi @nina_kali_nina Drivers thing reminds me that Haiku on my old laptop has wifi driver issues, even though it's a boring enough intel card it would work on Linux, all BSDs, as well as OpenSolaris.

(And tried booting 9front on it ages ago and didn't work, maybe should try again, would be kind of funny if wifi works there but not on Haiku)
Show threadMoses IzumiMar 6
@domi @hikari @lanodan @lumi @nina_kali_nina
For the record, the only Win32 apps I miss are Paint.net and Rufus.
Krita and Raspberry Pi Imager are good, but the UX isn't as refined.

Most of the Windows games I care about exist on other platforms (Colin McRae, Trackmania) or were open sourced in some way (Re-Volt, every classic FPS).

Wine could arguably be a better lifeline for binary apps than Flatpak.
paint.net - Coming Soon

Show threadF4GRX SébastienMar 6
@lumi @nina_kali_nina yes. It'd sad. But we stay strong together 💪 #noai
Show threadaramyaMar 5
@nina_kali_nina i regret having ever liked computers
Show threadStuMar 5
@nina_kali_nina The rapid acceleration of so many projects seemingly "welp, what are you gonna do?" and accepting it just depresses me to my core.
Show threadNina KalininaMar 5
@tehstu same. Same.
Show threadVictoria🏳️‍⚧️Mar 5
@tehstu @nina_kali_nina well, because… what are you gonna do? In my case it's less accepting and more just giving up.
Show threadNina KalininaMar 5
@tragivictoria @tehstu at the very least, you can say "fork it"
Show threadIzzy Mar 5
@tehstu @nina_kali_nina this is not a new tendency, see projects that embraced discord
Show threadVictoria🏳️‍⚧️Mar 5
@nina_kali_nina and that's why I think any lists of tainted software by LLMs are just not viable anymore. At this point every major project have it, making choices based on this is utterly impossible.
Show threadNina KalininaMar 5
@tragivictoria yup :<
Show thread🌸 lumi-nhac    🌱Mar 5
@tragivictoria @nina_kali_nina it's going to be more effective to celebrate projects standing against it than making lists of slopware, imo

support projects that have a moral compass
Show threadVictoria🏳️‍⚧️Mar 5
@lumi @nina_kali_nina that's a nice idea
Show threadtrystimuliMar 6

@lumi @nina_kali_nina @tragivictoria yes this.

celebrate projects that take good stands.

Show threadDavid SMar 5

@nina_kali_nina

Apps I think aren't too bad as there will always be other projects that will spring up to fill a non ai gap.

Linux however is going to be harder to deal with

Show threaddmi 💽 Mar 5

@nina_kali_nina hugs tight … yeah. mood. me too.

and it feels like it has gotten really bad in the past what, two weeks? not that it was good before, but the speed at which this is accelerating is just :/

Show threadNina KalininaMar 5
@domi apparently "models got real good since the release of Claude 4.5/4.6" or some other bs. Not that they did, but the PR depts are working tirelessly to make sure people are getting dependent on things that literally cost (hundreds of?) billions of dollars to run
Show threaddmi 💽 Mar 5
@nina_kali_nina genuinely struggling to process how do I continue from here. i’m usually scared, but this is… something else
Show threadNina KalininaMar 5
@domi wanna come visit and talk about it?
Show threadNina KalininaMar 5
@domi actually let me message you in private lol
Show threadRobotMar 8
@nina_kali_nina @domi to be honest idk what to do either
Show threadHugo MillsMar 5

@nina_kali_nina I've been writing an OS (just for the hell of it), and now I'm worrying about the fact that it's written in Rust, just in case.

I don't think I could write a Rust compiler, but I could probably write a really bad C compiler.

(In fact, doesn't rust rely on LLVM, which is highlighted in your images? Fuck.)

Show threadNina KalininaMar 5
@darkling correct, Rust relies on LLVM :<
Show threadLisPiMar 6
@nina_kali_nina @darkling GCCRust is not close to ready.
Show threadnjsgMar 5

@nina_kali_nina I can't wait for MAFIAA to join forces with these GenAI providers to make it so that copyright legislation is bent enough to allow this kind of usage, but only if it involves a registered GenAI big-player or the like.

*sigh* I'd say I may be getting too cynical except that in this case I'm quite sure this is how it will unfold, at least in the short term...