acargitzThe Iran War Is Unfathomably Depraved
cecilkorikIran’s government needed toppling, but the ends do not justify the means. How you do something is just as important as what you’re doing, and this is being done in a horrible, unjustifiable way for deeply nefarious reasons, and the fact that some sort of good may come of it (though that remains yet to be seen) does not excuse the fact that most of it is really, really bad.
Iran’s government needed toppling
by whom?
… that’s exactly what I meant. Did you… not read the rest of the comment? What did you think I meant by “the ends do not justify the means?” The means include who did it, and how. I am saying they are not justified.
I don’t see who you think should do be the one to do the toppling, it’s a sincere question
The Iranian people, ultimately. Even if they will need outside help achieving it, I believe it still needs to be led by them, it needs to be both be conducted in a way and ultimately result in something the Iranian people consent to, and it needs to be done in good faith, not transactionally, and preferably with substantial international consensus. I don’t think good faith was even in the same timezone with what is happening here, and any possibility of consensus is weak and almost entirely post-hoc. I think genuine criticism is deserved for why it hasn’t happened before now, and even for why this kind of intervention became necessary in the first place, and maybe this is a better state than it has previously been in, but again, those ends still do not justify the means. The means have been wrong before this, and the new means are also wrong. None of it is justified, and none of it will justify the current situation or any of the places the current situation is going. I am not going to give it a “pass” just because it might end up in a better situation.
Probably the same they do every time by working with the most violent groups so when shit goes down they end up with an even worse regime.
I am not an Iranian person, I don’t get to make proposals for them, nor do I want to. Go ask them. I won’t propose a right answer. I don’t know if there is one. But I can tell you with confidence that this answer is not right, and I am quite certain the Iranian people didn’t ask for what they’re equally certainly going to get.
Western chauvanists always treat non-western populations as an undifferentiated hive mind.
I think that’s a fair take if you mean that the Iranian people lead the revolution and outside help is only permitted if it works directly under the command of the iranian people. The reason people are so on edge about this is because there is a lot of US state dept propaganda about “liberating” the country, trodding out some opposition group regardless of popularity that is willing to work with the US regime. See for example VZ and machado as the latest example.