Brian Jopek
That’s the way it usually goes.
#DeepThoughts
Mar 5 at 5:33pmWeb
Show threaddiana 🏳️‍⚧️🦋🌱Mar 5

@BrianJopek

Predictable as the sunrise

Show threadkravietz 🦇Mar 5

@BrianJopek

It depends on what side you’re on. In case of Ukraine, who fights a defensive war - but still war - for its survival, there’s very few people who support stopping war defined as capitulation after everyone saw what Russians did on the territories they occupied. Ironically, this kind of pseudo-pacifism defined by proposals like “why doesn’t just Ukraine give away part of its territory in exchange for peace” are much more popular in the West… which are precisely “people who are not fighting” for their lives.

Show threadAllegro con FuocoMar 5
@kravietz @BrianJopek the US was involved in Yanukovich's coup and Russia wasn't about to let the US do a regime change in Ukraine let it join NATO and lose their base in Sevastopol. It's also true the loudest people about Ukraine do not fight in Ukraine and will happily let the war go on forever, so they invoke notions such as war of survival, putin is the new hitler, ukrainians are dying to defend us.. i mean if you believe that so strongly why don't you go fight the war yourself
Show threadkravietz 🦇Mar 5
@largo

There was no such thing as “Yanukovych coup” in the first place. Someone lied to you terribly!
Show threadMark KoekMar 6
@kravietz @largo So (a) it is OK to invade a country to prevent the loss of a military base there, (b) large countries can invade smaller neighbours if they want to join a treaty that big country doesn’t like, and (c) having wanted to do something against the will of a large neighbour will cost you 20% of your territory? Trying to get to grips with the rules of international law here.
Show threadAllegro con FuocoMar 8

@mkoek I don't understand why seeing a rationale behind smth must imply condoning.

a) yea let's see which power wouldn't do that, then we can sing kumbaya together.

The US would neeever do that, right. And i would protest like hell if the US invaded Cuba over Guantanamo if Cuba threatened to annex it. But it doesn't take a genius to see that the US would invade, right?

Show threadAllegro con FuocoMar 8

@mkoek
b) No, countries shouldn't have the right to just join any treaty or organization if it threatens the peace/security of the region, i'm sorry. In the same way Brazil shouldn't have the right to burn down the Amazon, because it would threaten life on this planet.

Legalistically, yes sure, a sovereign state can join whichever treaty it wants..

But outside of that, if you ever thought Russia was gonna sit by while Ukraine joined NATO, after repeated warnings, then...

Show threadMark KoekMar 8
@largo So “legalistically” you agree they have the right to self-determination, but hey, might makes right and you have to obey the powerful. That’s a pretty straightforward abdication of international law. Very fashionable these days!
Show threadAllegro con FuocoMar 8
@kravietz What do you even mean? You don't even have to listen to the russians, the americans admit it themselves. Have you not heard about the Nuland phone call?