zivibtw #fediblock social.vlhl.dev - is an instance by and for tankies
(see thread for some context)
(casual reader beware, for it’s a hellthread of shitstorms now~)
Luci ☯⚛@zaire You cannot post something like this when you're mutuals with people who are mutuals with the person who runs that instance and not expect people to ask for receipts 😅
@quantumsys ah, just take a scroll thru her profile, you’re bound to stumble upon very questionable stuff. gonna do some of that for ya
- tankie symbol in name, when you see that the user is 90% likely to be an obnoxious tankie, this one is a prime example
- “please china 🙏 the people of germany deserve regime change” https://social.vlhl.dev/notice/B3pQDV5o2hx66FriBU - shilling for horrible totalitarian regimes
- https://social.vlhl.dev/notice/B3nF4v90KJL2Tm9DNY ??? criticizing fascist governments is bad now?
- https://social.vlhl.dev/notice/B3moA8RLcfv2OvzPvc ??? call for nuclear war
- boosted “free maduro” post, once again adjacent to shilling for authoritarians
that’s just a week in
lizzy مثلية الله ☭ :heart_lesbian_diagonal2: :cuwu: (@[email protected])
please china 🙏 the people of germany deserve regime change
@quantumsys continuing the scroll!~
- https://social.vlhl.dev/notice/B3G7mXxSgNHBScMXjc bonus!! strong implication of “forcefemming men is good and it’s funny to argue against that”
- https://social.vlhl.dev/notice/B3FAeZnO4XTdXza7Gq explicit pro-tankie stance
- https://social.vlhl.dev/notice/B3A0NVSUyO71qFEVuq bonus!! we’re getting closer to the buried gem of a crashout
- https://social.vlhl.dev/notice/B31bfwmo3Yx7grkUyW “wifey and i want to put up some soviet propaganda posters in our home as decoration” wow is this unhinged in a bad way
- https://social.vlhl.dev/notice/B2scLy0Imtnt1Av200 bonus another pro-forcefem (don’t come at me with “it’s cnc” argument, it’s definitely not in this context) take
oh look at that! we’ve reached The Crashout Thread, and it’s actually by a completely different tankie user, on a completely different (still completely fediblockable instance akko.tuxcrafting.xyz). https://akko.tuxcrafting.xyz/objects/1e335a26-fa4d-4a51-bae3-88a668a02072 . it’s still extremely relevant! for i see it boosted by lizzy
the akko.tuxcrafting.xyz case:
- https://akko.tuxcrafting.xyz/objects/9d8876e3-4409-4e1f-abcf-9911973966d3 - extremely tankie-brainwashed take lol
- https://akko.tuxcrafting.xyz/objects/1ecc6ab3-b6d5-41b9-b508-386ef4aee5e3 “countries like the USSR are democratic”, ‘nuff said
tbc
lizzy مثلية الله ☭ :heart_lesbian_diagonal2: :cuwu: (@[email protected])
immensely funny type of guy. check out the replies RE: https://noc.social/@light/115980861452069016
★ 凪鈴【Nagirin】 (Anastácia) 茸形@zaire I don't even like MLs politically but you're being orders of magnitude more ridiculous than they could ever be lol
@zaire You're not showing a spine you're kicking and screaming online calling for the social exclusion of someone you find disagreeable. If you're genuinely so upset at their posts just block and move on.
@zaire you're closer to fascism than the average ML with your reactionary non-communist anti-capitalism lol
@nagirin “non-communist anti-capitalism = close to fascism” is strange logic, we in the biz just call that anarchism
@zaire anarchism is a reactionary political movement
@zaire scary, someone pushes against you!!
@zaire maybe try building your politics around something more than moralising and the cult of action
@zaire both of those things have very clear meanings
@nagirin okay well how about you tell me those meanings because i’m not a marxolenist i ain’t reading 10 books about each of them just so i can engage in a 10 minute debate that’s sure to end in us being blockuals
@zaire I'm not a Marxist, those are not Marxist phrases. You do not need to read 10 books to know what moralising means 
But okay sure. Moralising is when you build political opinions and ideas mostly on purely on morals, we should help the poor because it's the right thing to do, type stuff. Morals themselves are fine, but the issue with moralising politics is that people can just disagree. So you end up with wet mop politics and an inability to actually advocate for anything.
Cult of action is the fetishisation many have for "doing things", union organisation, sabotage, striking, political parties, etc. I am not completely disregarding them, but many leftists see these thing as supreme and moralise the participation in these activities as an imperative.
But okay sure. Moralising is when you build political opinions and ideas mostly on purely on morals, we should help the poor because it's the right thing to do, type stuff. Morals themselves are fine, but the issue with moralising politics is that people can just disagree. So you end up with wet mop politics and an inability to actually advocate for anything.
Cult of action is the fetishisation many have for "doing things", union organisation, sabotage, striking, political parties, etc. I am not completely disregarding them, but many leftists see these thing as supreme and moralise the participation in these activities as an imperative.
@nagirin aaaand how are those things wrong?
morals are at the core of politics
good morals = leftist, bad morals = fash. if people consistently “just disagree” with doing the right thing, their morals are scuffed and shouldn’t be considered, it’s that simple
action is at the core of anything happening
if we don’t do anything, nothing will happen; nothing does not include society improving somewhat
miko@zaire What birthes morals? Morals didn't drop from the sky, nor were they reasoned to by you as a free agent. Morals are build around millennia of human society. And as such the morals that you, and everyone hold, are tainted by oppressive class society.
Morals are a social construct and a social webbing that we partake in, one cannot declare themselves emancipated from morals. This is important because the morals of society at large mostly exist to uphold the society we already have. You may not like to be told this, but I and your morals are like >90% based on western Abrahamic traditions, and removing ourselves from that is nigh impossible.
I think the issue is clear, basing political action and thought on a moral system so corrupted and tainted by the society you already exist within will therefore taint the political beliefs that you form.
You cannot emancipate yourself from morals, as I said. But you can not put them on the centre of your political reasoning and try to limit your dependance on them politically.
And also, no, there are no such thing as good and bad morals, there is no objective morality, even if you follow a religion where such is the case, e.g. Christianity, people of other religions will just, disagree. Surely you do not have the arrogance to play cosmic moral judge, not to mention the arrogance of beliving the morals you hold happen to be the "right ones".
Cult of action is problematic specifically because it builds on the idae of the sovereign individual. That we are free agents able to act without being tethered by our circumstance and material condition. The currents of history does not bow to a king that declares himself ruler of the tides. And political motions of the world do not depend on the actions of individuals. I don't expect you to agree on this point, just sharing my viewpoint.
I am not against improving society, but that doesn't come from a supreme internal "drive" in me and other people of action. It comes because people are moved to action by the conditions they exist within.
Morals are a social construct and a social webbing that we partake in, one cannot declare themselves emancipated from morals. This is important because the morals of society at large mostly exist to uphold the society we already have. You may not like to be told this, but I and your morals are like >90% based on western Abrahamic traditions, and removing ourselves from that is nigh impossible.
I think the issue is clear, basing political action and thought on a moral system so corrupted and tainted by the society you already exist within will therefore taint the political beliefs that you form.
You cannot emancipate yourself from morals, as I said. But you can not put them on the centre of your political reasoning and try to limit your dependance on them politically.
And also, no, there are no such thing as good and bad morals, there is no objective morality, even if you follow a religion where such is the case, e.g. Christianity, people of other religions will just, disagree. Surely you do not have the arrogance to play cosmic moral judge, not to mention the arrogance of beliving the morals you hold happen to be the "right ones".
Cult of action is problematic specifically because it builds on the idae of the sovereign individual. That we are free agents able to act without being tethered by our circumstance and material condition. The currents of history does not bow to a king that declares himself ruler of the tides. And political motions of the world do not depend on the actions of individuals. I don't expect you to agree on this point, just sharing my viewpoint.
I am not against improving society, but that doesn't come from a supreme internal "drive" in me and other people of action. It comes because people are moved to action by the conditions they exist within.
@nagirin but you have to agree, murdering people because they disagree with you is bad, murdering people who’re trans or otherwise marginalized because you feel like it is bad, etc. of course, transphobes will Just Disagree, but that doesn’t mean their opinions are valid
That we are free agents able to act without being tethered by our circumstance and material condition.
it’s neither here nor there
of course we’re all tethered by our circumstance, but that doesn’t mean we can’t do anything to dismantle the oppressive systems we’re being forced into from the inside. organized strikes and sabotage do that. please don’t nihilism away the fact that when people do things, things happen, and insofar as a society is concerned things can’t really happen without people doing things
a random given individual is unlikely to be able to cause drastic shifts in history on their own, but many small actions or many people combined are what steers the world
@zaire I do agree that all murder is bad, I am a Buddhist and have a staunch non-violence principle. I am not trying to defend people who think murder of trans people is right.
You can obviously pick such a black and white moral issue, but there are many issues that are much more grey. But how about this:
Why is murder "bad"? Where does it come from? Think about that a bit. Why do so many cultures and religions even oppose murder so heavily?
I'm not a nihilist, if you think this is nihilism you are a philosophical dry well. I know that when people do things things happen. But I also know that people don't do things because of supreme personal inspiration, they do it because they're pushed to it.
That's why I don't moralise action.
I agree on the last point, but I am surprised you do, because recognising it is the wave of people that cause change should make you reflect upon the idea that all political change, and change in general, is driven by tides greater than any one person. And that people who drive change are merely people caught up in these riptides of history.
You can obviously pick such a black and white moral issue, but there are many issues that are much more grey. But how about this:
Why is murder "bad"? Where does it come from? Think about that a bit. Why do so many cultures and religions even oppose murder so heavily?
I'm not a nihilist, if you think this is nihilism you are a philosophical dry well. I know that when people do things things happen. But I also know that people don't do things because of supreme personal inspiration, they do it because they're pushed to it.
That's why I don't moralise action.
I agree on the last point, but I am surprised you do, because recognising it is the wave of people that cause change should make you reflect upon the idea that all political change, and change in general, is driven by tides greater than any one person. And that people who drive change are merely people caught up in these riptides of history.
@nagirin the thing is, tides greater than any one person are made up of individuals, and those individuals’ actions matter to where the tide will go next
it’s better to act to nudge the tide in the right direction than give up and let it carry you whereever. the difference made by one person is usually insignificant, that much is true, but we shouldn’t let that discourage us as individuals from working towards our goal as a group
men are deceived in that they think themselves free [NS: i.e., they think that, of their own free will, they can either do a thing or forbear doing it], an opinion which consists only in this, that they are conscious of their actions and ignorant of the causes by which they are determined. This, then, is their idea of freedom - that they do not know the cause of their actions.wherever an idea appears to our mind whose cause we cannot account for, we ascribe it to free willBoth from Spinoza's Ethics.
I am not against action, I said that already. I am against the cult of action. People do things, or don't do things, that's a nature of existence. That you or I push someone into doing something is just one of the myriads of things that push and nudge them into the decision they make, and that you want to urge someone into action is again, caused by myriads upon myriads of influences upon you.
Human society is so incomprehensibly large it's nonsensical to act as if we can influence it as enlightened individuals. I am not against action, and I don't believe action is pointless. I am not a nihilist. I believe however, that humans do things far beyond what their free will can determine, and that while a free will exists, it is locked within a birdcage.
People talk of playing cards in a situation, but life is one big card game, you can only play the cards you're dealt. And sadly, the game is rigged from the start.
Do all the action you want, but don't act like action is a moral imperative, and that you are morally superior for doing such action.
I am not against action, I said that already. I am against the cult of action. People do things, or don't do things, that's a nature of existence. That you or I push someone into doing something is just one of the myriads of things that push and nudge them into the decision they make, and that you want to urge someone into action is again, caused by myriads upon myriads of influences upon you.
Human society is so incomprehensibly large it's nonsensical to act as if we can influence it as enlightened individuals. I am not against action, and I don't believe action is pointless. I am not a nihilist. I believe however, that humans do things far beyond what their free will can determine, and that while a free will exists, it is locked within a birdcage.
People talk of playing cards in a situation, but life is one big card game, you can only play the cards you're dealt. And sadly, the game is rigged from the start.
Do all the action you want, but don't act like action is a moral imperative, and that you are morally superior for doing such action.
@nagirin i do not expect the same actions from people in different constraints
if one cannot viably act to nudge the tides where we’d rather they go, i won’t deem it their failing
ᴮᵉⁿ ᴿᵒʸᶜᵉVOTE IN THE PRIMARIEStransphobes will Just Disagree, but that doesn’t mean their opinions are valid
the transphobes view their opinions as valid though
please don’t nihilism away the fact that when people do things, things happen, and insofar as a society is concerned things can’t really happen without people doing things
claiming that historical materialism is nihilistic is certainly one of the takes of all time
elizabeth worm🔅
@zaire I'm not belittling you. I'm completely genuine when I say Anarchism (including most political movements self-describing as anti-capitalism) is reactionary as it builds around this idealisation of small production and small communities.