e8d79

Mozilla is now encouraging unattributed slop code in Firefox

https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/55683898

Mozilla is now encouraging unattributed slop code in Firefox - tchncs

Usually code contributions by various LLMs are easily identifiable because the agent is the author for the git commit. Mozilla on the other hand seem to be explicitly encourage unattributed LLM code in Firefox. Also note jakearchibald, Mozillas AI spin doctor whenever devs question their intentions, lying about the reasons for this change. I think their true intentions are to muddy the waters to hide the amount of slop contributions in Firefox.

Feb 27 at 5:26pmWeb
Show threadCasterialFeb 27
I stopped using Firefox because it was slowly becoming a bug filled mess. It’s in the trash with chrome for me now
Show thread1984Feb 27
What do you use now?
Show threadZerushFeb 27
Vivaldi, EU made, fuck AI by default
Vivaldi takes a stand: keep browsing human | Vivaldi Browser

Browsing should push you to explore, chase ideas, and make your own decisions. It should light up your brain. Vivaldi is taking a stand. We choose humans over hype, and we will not turn the joy of…

Vivaldi Browser
Show threadpkjqpg1hFeb 27
Please don’t recommend propriety software
Show threadCasterialFeb 28

I use Vivaldi and it’s miles better than default chrome or Firefox, but it is still chromium.

There’s also edge, or opera. But, Vivaldi is nice for its blockers + note taking

Show threadpkjqpg1hFeb 28

Better than Firefox?

That’s enough for me

Show threadCasterialFeb 28

Firefox has gotten corrupted multiple times for me with normal use, to the point it wasn’t worth it. Specifically the user profile.

Ublock is great though.

Show threadpkjqpg1hFeb 28
use whatever you want
Show threadCasterialMar 2
At one point I had programmed my own, but that was for college and I doubt it’s secure in today’s world, that was over 10 years ago.
Show threadZerushFeb 28

Well, in the case of Vivaldi “proprietary soft” is pretty relative. A small part of it’s unique UI is proprietary of Vivaldi, but full auditable, means source available not closed source, even modificable by the user (they show you how, at own risk naturally). There is nothing shady in Vivaldi. employee owned cooperative in Norway.

vivaldi.com/source/

github.com/ric2b/Vivaldi-browser

Source | Vivaldi Browser

View the source code for past versions of the Vivaldi browser.

Vivaldi Browser
Show threadpkjqpg1hFeb 28
  • Without limiting the foregoing, you are neither allowed to (a) adapt, alter, translate, embed into any other product or otherwise create derivative works of, or otherwise modify the Software ; (b) separate the component programs of the Software for use on different computers; © reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble or otherwise attempt to derive the source code for the Software, except as permitted by applicable law; or (d) remove, alter or obscure any proprietary notices on the Software or the applicable documentation therein.

    • vivaldi.com/…/vivaldi-end-user-license-agreement/

    Having some source code does not mean it’s free software

    Vivaldi End User License Agreement | Vivaldi Browser

    Read the end user license agreement for the Vivaldi browser and find out how to get in touch if you have any questions about regarding our EULA.

    Vivaldi Browser
    Show threadZerushFeb 28
    That is, as said, 5% of the code related to the UI is proprietary, only this isn’t allowed to use for other products (eg. Chrome, EDGE), but the user is free to modify it for his Vivaldi browser, they show you even how to do it. The rest is a de-googled Chromium, which is FOSS and other layers with several different OpenSource licenses. For Gecko browsers it’s way easier to go full FOSS, because there isn’t any big corporation which have browsers with this engine,same for relative basic Chromium forks, but not so with browsers like Vivaldi, which is more an online suite as only an simple browser. It would be a shot in the own knee if Google or MS could fork it freely.
    Show threadpkjqpg1hFeb 28

    No thanks, I prefer free software

    • The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose (freedom 0).
    • The freedom to study how the program works, and change it to make it do what you wish (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
    • The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help others (freedom 2).
    • The freedom to distribute copies of your modified versions to others (freedom 3). By doing this you can give the whole community a chance to benefit from your changes. Access to the source code is a precondition for this.

    en.wikipedia.org/…/The_Free_Software_Definition#T…

    The Free Software Definition - Wikipedia

    Show threadZerushFeb 28
    • The freedom to run the Browser as you wish for any purpose is given in Vivaldi more than in any other existing browser
    • Same for study how it works and change it to your wish, the source code is available
    • Redistribute isn’t allowed, but with already over 100 different browsers, most Chromiums, the need of it is anyway pretty debatable.
    • You are free to distribute your mods to other Vivaldi users, the Forum is full of it. As said, the Source is modificable by the user to his like (naturally at own risk, but it isn’t avoided by Vivaldi, they show you even how).

    Currently there are 4 Millon users of Vivaldi and with all the possibiñities to customize the browser, there are no 2 users with the same.

    Show threadpkjqpg1hFeb 28

    I don’t care what you say I care what Vivaldi says

    vivaldi.com/…/why-isnt-vivaldi-browser-open-sourc…

    Why isn’t Vivaldi browser open-source? | Vivaldi Browser

    People involved in the open-source community often ask us why Vivaldi browser isn’t fully open-source. In this post, we’ll explore and explain our position.

    Vivaldi Browser
    Show threadZerushFeb 28
    I know what they say and I know the reasons and what it means for its users. Would be nice if Mozilla had this transparency.
    Show threadpkjqpg1hMar 1
    ok have a good one
    Show threadReygleFeb 27
    JFC is the new CEO a plant to burn the browser to the ground?
    Show threadthe_riviera_kidFeb 27
    I would believe you if you told me that. There’s not much else to explain it other than incompetence (which I suspect is the actual reason).
    Show threadjj4211Feb 28

    Nothing is stopping a human contributor from using AI without attribution already.

    Let’s say there’s an issue and you want to include the original stakeholder about the change. Instead you hit a dead end, annotation says AI but no way to reach the human that initiated the change.

    Show threadWackyHeartFluidFeb 27
    I’m really going to miss Firefox
    Show threadthe_riviera_kidFeb 27
    I have used firefox since it was netscape, so it was a bit sad when I switched to waterfox after they made the bullshit AI announcement. I’m hoping something better comes along but I have little faith it will happen.
    Show threadRunecrush376Feb 27
    ill no longer use firefox now… i think vivaldi is better
    Show threadpkjqpg1hFeb 27
    Please don’t recommend propriety software
    Show threadRunecrush376Feb 27
    Well i didnt know vivaldi wasnt foss… then ill give librewolf a shot, i have it installed too.
    Show threadKilgore TroutFeb 28
    Librewolf is Firefox.
    Show threadRunecrush376Feb 28
    Yes, but its a fork without ai slop. It has better privacy functions too.
    Show threadKilgore TroutFeb 28
    It is not a fork. It is a set of patches on top of Firefox Stable.
    Show threadBelazorMar 1

    Waterfox or Floorp?

    I don’t use either currently but I’m thinking of switching off the main Firefox browser.

    Waterfox - Open source web browser

    The web browser that respects your privacy

    Waterfox
    Show threadKilgore TroutMar 3
    Why? They all depend on Firefox.
    Show threadBelazorMar 3
    You commented on the others saying they were not forks, which it seems like these are.
    Show threadKilgore TroutMar 3
    They depend entirely on Mozilla developing Firefox as Free Software.
    Show threadBelazorMar 3
    And the alternative is what? Chromium?
    Show threadKilgore TroutMar 4
    There is no real alternative. In terms of Free Software modern web browsers, it’s either Firefox or Chromium.
    Servo and Ladybird in the future.
    Show threadegerlachFeb 27
    While I think that this isn’t on target, I believe it to be mis-executed rather than misguided: I think they were trying to support their AI Coding Policy by removing any notion that Claude was responsible for the work (therefore leaving the human responsible). What it does in practice of course is just hide AI-generated code. Since the commit setting can be anything you want, I believe a disclaimer that the commit was assisted by Claude but that the committer is considered the author of the code would be a better choice (and I said so on the thread). I hope they improve their choice.
    Firefox AI Coding Policy — Firefox Source Docs documentation

    Show threaddrdiddlybadgerFeb 27
    Was this linked to a specific report or something? I cannot reach it. Does someone have a backup?
    Show thread9tr6gyp3Feb 27

    This change is about preventing AI from trying to own the change. A human must own the change.

    AI cannot own a Firefox contribution. AI cannot commit code to Firefox. Only a human may do that.

    If a human uses AI (or autocomplete / a formatter / a transpiler / whatever else) to help them author code, that doesn’t devolve them of responsibility. The human must take ownership and responsibility for the output.

    For example, if we later run git-blame on a section of the code, we want to see the human that took responsibility for the code, not some AI.

    Firefox’s policy on AI code: firefox-source-docs.mozilla.org/…/ai-coding.html

    Firefox AI Coding Policy — Firefox Source Docs documentation

    Show threadAgrivarFeb 27

    Wait just a minute, that sounds… reasonable?

    This won’t do! I’ve already fetched my pitchfork and ignited my torch!

    Show threadSaharaMaleikuhmFeb 27
    I’m convinced the Brave shills have been posting Firefox misinformation for years
    Show threade8d79Feb 27
    It was horse shit when jakearchibald wrote it; its still horse shit now.
    Show thread9tr6gyp3Feb 27
    K
    Show threadPrunebuttFeb 27

    How many human eyes of experienced programmers will have looked at the code?

    A whoopsie in the web browser is significantly worse than in an… I don’t know… than in a vibe-coded so-called “AI” framework/social network. /s

    Show threadyabbadabaddonFeb 28
    We can crash rockets without use of LLMs, thank you very much en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_flight_V88
    Ariane flight V88 - Wikipedia

    Show threadDarkCloudFeb 27

    That’s good news! Thanks for looking into it.

    Side note, Firefox now has AI settings you have to manually turn off on it’s settings.

    Show threadPrinz KasperFeb 27
    That… Sounds like a good change actually??
    Show threadRailcar8095Feb 28
    Perfect way honestly. Same philosophy we follow. I don’t care how you made the PR, you’re responsible for it and you need to be able to defend and explain it. If we get a “I don’t know, chatGPT told me this” reject.
    Show threadTheSeveralJourneysOfReemusFeb 27
    I want to trust young programmers to not abuse AI but deep down I know the answer, and so do you
    Show threadTigeroovyFeb 27
    I’m sure there will be some that won’t. But it will probably be a shockingly small number of them that care enough to not.
    Show threadneclimdulFeb 28
    You tell people they can turn their brain off and trust the AI enough and they might just start doing it.
    Show threadgwl [he/him]Mar 1

    [email protected]

    It’s firefox minus the slop

    Show threadwinkerjadamsMar 1
    LibreWolf for a security and privacy focused version
    Show threadgwl [he/him]Mar 1
    Yeah also a great option!