Ludic 🧛Feb 21

Reposting a question for Ed Zitron, I'll forward responses. He asked on Bluesky and will get sub-Mastodon-tier answers:

"This is a serious question and I would be delighted if I only hear great things but, software engineers: both before and after LLMs, how often in your professional lives have you run into software engineers that seem completely useless or lacking in basic knowledge? I hope the answer is rarely"

Show threadDrikanisFeb 21

@ludicity For the record, I work at a software company that employs ~10k developers.

Before LLMs, I'd encounter such engineers a couple of times a month, but I interact with a lot of engineers, specifically the ones that need help or are new at the company or industry at large, so it's a selected sample. Even the most inexperienced ones are willing and able to learn with some guidance.

After LLMs, there's been a significant uptick, and these new ones are grossly incompetent, incurious, impatient, and behave like addicts if their supply of tokens is at all interrupted. If they run out of prompt credits, its an emergency because they claim they can't do any work at all. They can't even explain the architecture of what they are making anymore, and can't even file tickets or send emails without an LLM writing it for them, and they certainly lack in any kind of reading comprehension.

It's bleak and depressing, and makes me want to quit the industry altogether.

Show threadJulien Avérous – 🇫🇷🇪🇺🇺🇦Feb 21
@drikanis @ludicity Similar experience here. More and more people cannot function without an LLM prompt ready to answer to them, they totally lost any autonomy. If you ask anything to them, they will basically give you the output of their LLM, instead of formulating an answer by themselves, even when they know the answer. It’s pure cocaine.
Show threadChris GreenFeb 21
@javerous @drikanis @ludicity The same thing happened with the web years ago.. programmers who claim to be fluent in a language or algorithms who are completely unable to program without constant googling for even basic stuff.
Show threadJordiFeb 22
@aachrisg @javerous @drikanis @ludicity not the same. Using a search engine is basically having optimized documentation. I learnt the trade ‘fighting’ with the old ‘wall of paper’ of DEC orange binders with VAX/VMS documentation. Being able to search for them was a blessing.
Show threadJyrgen NFeb 22
@jguillaumes @aachrisg @javerous @drikanis @ludicity Back in the day, working with VAX/VMS I mostly wrote software that had little OS dependencies, portable C code using the C standard libraries, so I didn't need the Red Wall (and later the Grey Wall) much. But the online HELP system was indispensable. (1/3)
Show threadJordiFeb 22
@jyrgenn @aachrisg @javerous @drikanis @ludicity did you use LSE? (Language sensitive editor) At that time it looked like magic.
Show threadChris GreenFeb 22
@jguillaumes @jyrgenn @javerous @drikanis @ludicity TECO! (I was using paper terminals, mainly a Silent 700).
Show threadJyrgen NFeb 22
@aachrisg @jguillaumes @javerous @drikanis @ludicity Unter VMS I invoked TECO once. IIRC it needed the PDP-11 compatibility mode, and the VAX 8650 I worked with was the last model to offer that. Couldn't make much of it, though.
Show threadJordiFeb 22
@jyrgenn @aachrisg @javerous @drikanis @ludicity now I have something like six simh emulated VAXen running in a couple of raspberries at home. And also a there PDP-11s and Kl10 mainframes. And THIS is incredible
Show threadJyrgen N
@jguillaumes @aachrisg @javerous @drikanis @ludicity Recently I tried out the current version of OpenVMS under community license. Turned out (a) my knowledge of VMS as a system has never been that great as I was only a developer, without any sysadmin aspirations; (b) without TCP/IP or *any* networking included in the license it isn't much fun, really. Never learned anything of the other DEC systems except RSX-11 (I think) on a Pro 350, but with DCL.
Feb 22 at 6:07pmWeb