Mastodawn

And by slow posting, I mean slowwww. In between playing Majora's Mask with two cats sleeping on me ❤️

2/n

The problem with NL is that it's cold, grey, wet and miserable. Unless you like cycling through the rain (gas costs 3 dollars a liter and forget about parking), you'll be inside your house for 8 months out of the year. Even during the 2 weeks of summer, there's no nature to enjoy. We basically have 3 nature parks, which you can walk in a day. And that's it. The beaches are shit, the food is flavorless, everything looks the same. It's grey and bland every day.

3/n

All of that was somewhat tolerable, because at least most of us lived a decent middle class life here. But that's starting to disappear as well. I don't know what's happened the past few years, but life here has gotten ridiculously expensive. Groceries, taxes, rent, incidental expenses, everything increased. To a point where it regularly starts to eat into my savings. It doesn't make financial sense to stay in The Netherlands. It's just not worth it anymore.

4/n

That's not even mentioning the pension age that they raised to 72, the houses that on average cost over €500.000 (for a rijtjeshuis btw), the insane cost of being single instead of a couple, and the right wing conservative parties consistently dominating for the last 20 years leading to a hollowing out of every collective utility from healthcare to energy to housing. The Netherlands is a boomers paradise.

5/n

Clearly it's time to go (even though I'd be willing to stay a bit longer for a ~particular role~, in case my boss is reading this 😂), but the question is..

..go where?

Australia was a contender, but I haven't heard back from my visa application. Finding a visa sponsored job also hasn't led anywhere. Plus, it feels like Australians are dealing with their own financial challenges, especially aspiring home owners.

6/n

The US isn't an option for obvious reasons, Canada too cold, Latam too far, South Africa too murder-y, and Thailand doesn't seem convenient careerwise.

So that leaves Southern Europe.

The biggest issue is where and how. I have two cats to haul along. Do I buy a campervan and rent out my house? Where do I go?

Also, I love my work atm, can I keep doing that for as long as possible while figuring this out? And will I find a new role in the same field again?

7/n

At this point I'm pretty convinced I need to buy a campervan and just travel around 😅 I've only seen a fraction of the continent.

I can't think of any scenario that doesn't come with a cost. Every scenario means digging into my savings.

8/n

The saga continues. 🥲

We've established that I need to move abroad. I still don't know where to. And I have two cats to bring along.

The problem is that buying a campervan will easily erase 1/3rd to 1/2 of my savings. And I need those savings to buy a house or start a business. It would be much cheaper if I just knew where I wanted to live and moved there, but noooo. 🙄

I'm worried about spending all my money on travelling and then not having any left to move.

9/n

I'm also very unsure whether I'll like travelling by campervan. It seems equal parts fun and ghetto. 😂

Btw this would be across Europe. The question is where (but I'd def want to include France, Austria, Slovenia, Greece and Turkey).

10/n

What I could also do, instead of buying a van, is take short city trips by plane during long weekends all over Europe and try different places.

But that would limit me to big cities. While I think I might prefer smaller cities or even the countryside. But still with an expat vibe. And good coffee places. And quiet. But also lively. Sigh. 🤦🏼‍♀️

11/n

hermetikoz Mar 1

@Gina

It will be great fun.

lalala sombra Mar 1

@Gina You could rent one a give it a go before fully committing to it

@lalalasombra I'm considering this, maybe for a weekend in NL or a week in Fontainebleau, FR. 🥐

lalala sombra Mar 1

@Gina I think a week in Fontainebleau might be the perfect test. Also, freshly baked 🥐

@Gina My remarks/tips:
Spain is probably the best, they are more relaxed then NL, they or more open than NL they promote having a business.
Campervan road tax doubled this year, could be interesting to buy it abroad. But then you cannot really go on holiday in NL, although I am not sure how strict the checks are on this.

@MisterMaker yeah buying/owning/driving a campervan is ridiculously expensive in NL (just like everything else yay).

I was looking into buying abroad, but I think you can't bring it into the Netherlands then, which sounds challenging.

Edit: I'm so sick of this country 😂

@Gina Jup, heb gisteren nog allemaal zitten uitzoeken. kwam in Duitsland 90 euro pm goedkoper uit, maar niet naar Nederland op vakantie gaan was voor ons ook een deal breaker. :(

@MisterMaker ik wil niet in NL op vakantie, maar dit is wel m'n startpunt, dus ik zal sowieso 1x het land in en uit moeten rijden. Geen idee of dat dan mag, en of je überhaupt een buitenlands kenteken mag registeren als NLse burger.

Wouter 🇳🇱🇧🇷🇧🇪Mar 1

@Gina @MisterMaker voor Spanje toch een kleine waarschuwing, de belastingdienst daar (Hacienda) is echt haast een terreurorganisatie. Ze zijn berucht op jagen op buitenlandse mensen. Vele Nederlanders komen behoorlijk in de problemen door de Spaanse belastingdienst.

@AccordingtoWouter @MisterMaker Eerlijk gezegd trekt Spanje mij ook niet heel erg. Portugal al helemaal niet. Ik voel denk ik meer voor de kant van Frankrijk, Italië, Kroatië, Griekenland.

@AccordingtoWouter @Gina Krijg je daar ook een boete als je 1 keer vergeet op verzenden te drukken bij de belasting aangifte.

@MisterMaker @AccordingtoWouter ha ik heb begin dit jaar nog een boete gekregen omdat ik de btw aangifte een DAG te laat had ingeleverd. Het argument dat hun portaal er de dag ervoor uit lag en ik de aangifte niet KON doen deed er niet toe 🙃

Wouter 🇳🇱🇧🇷🇧🇪Mar 1

@Gina @MisterMaker ja ook dat gebeurt in Spanje. En erger nog. Dingen als brieven die niet naar je adres zijn verstuurd en mensen dus niet wisten dat er problemen waren en dan geconfronteerd worden met belachelijk hoge boetes. Onduidelijkheden over waar je belasting moet betalen. Gewoon echt horror.

@Gina Zit nog even te checken, en kan geen zak vinden op de website van de belastingdienst. Maar lijkt wel dat het allemaal beetje schimmige contructies zijn denk niet echt risico waard.

@MisterMaker de Belastingdienst kennende zal er wel weer een gigantische boete op staan.

n3wjack Mar 1

@Gina
Do you have one of those digital Payage thingies that works for a bunch of EU countries? A friend got one of those. Handy for roadtrips these days.

@n3wjack you mean for the toll roads?

Wouter De Borger Mar 1

@Gina you can rent campervans quite easily, so easy to try.

OutOfSpace - 不割席 Feb 22

@Gina I feel you. Buying a camper van and touring Europe sounds like a good move forward.

Paul Wijhenke Feb 22

@Gina I feel you. Im from the Netherlands as well. Currently in Fuertaventura for a while. We have been here before and loving it. We might even end-up moving here. Still Europe (houses still expensive), but lots of campervans because it's really compatible with the weather. It's consistently warm (winter and summer).
So, buy campervan, add cats, drive here and rent-out house to friends!
</advise> :)

Dj PorCus - Will Feb 22

@Gina Switzerland would be the expensive solution , but at least we generaly have at least 6 months where you can be outside at 20c+ . big towns tend to be more center lefts, public transports mostly works , but you need a local job to afford the living cost. and ownership aint simple either. I'm currently also ready to move anywhere for a job, but my homebase will , most likely, fallback to .ch in the end. Ping if you have specific questions , might have answers ;)

Sven Neuhaus Feb 23

@Gina consider a boat instead of a van. ⛵️

Otto Sulin Feb 23

@Gina funny coincidence, just told my wife exactly the same and she thinks I'm crazy 😂

Flous

Feb 23

@Gina My dream, Saving for a campervan (hopefully next year I've got the sum), getting rid of the house and travel till I die in my own driveable space.

hadronized Feb 22

@Gina I’ve always thought The Netherlands would be a good place to live in. Probably a biased and blasé French point of view.

@hadronized Pierre you guys have fresh croissants, wine and cheese. Don't you dare move to this swamp.

hadronized Feb 22

@Gina haha yeah, food and healthcare in France are the main reasons why I haven’t really moved out anywhere yet. And alt-right getting more and more attention in many European countries is scary. I love Italy but yeah, not so fond of their politics…

@hadronized Pierre you guys have fresh croissants, wine and cheese. Don't you dare move to this swamp.

Arjen Haayman Feb 22

@Gina Slovenia seems a very nice country. Checks a lot of boxes

Tonanio 🇪🇺 🇵🇹 🇺🇦 🇵🇱Feb 22

@Gina Depends on your "preferred" requirements and willingness to sacrifice I guess... Portugal has some expat program for digital nomads iirc, Spain is (maybe) cheaper, Italy has houses for 1€...

Angelo Massaro 🇪🇺Feb 22

@Gina I suggest Croatia, where I’m currently based, though I haven’t lived here long enough to give a comprehensive feedback. Keep in mind that Istria is close to both Italy and Slovenia. There are plenty of beach options, mountains (if needed), and heritage sites. Food-wise, I mostly cook my own food, but you can also find high-quality restaurants. I’d recommend going on a trip to Pula or Rijeka to see in person if it is the right place for you.

@angelomassaro isn't Croatia really expensive nowadays?

Angelo Massaro 🇪🇺Feb 22

@Gina Like many places in Europe, Croatia is dealing with high inflation, but with some budgeting, you can still live comfortably, especially if you earn an IT salary from a foreign company. You can also find a house (15-20km from the seaside) with a decent garden for under €300k, if that fits your budget

caffetino Feb 22

@Gina what about Spain or Italy?

@caffetino Depending on where. I don't see myself living in a Spanish or Italian city. They have a habit of stacking houses tightly on top of each other, very little greenery, and I need space. I want a garden. Think a farmhouse.

Lorenzo Miniero Feb 22

@Gina @caffetino but both Italy and Spain are big and there aren't just the cities. An English friend of mine bought property in Umbria in the country. A Spanish friend of mine bought a house for 40k€ (!!). In general, if you stay away from big cities and from too touristic places, there are good bargains to be made: I heard of big houses with big gardens available at 150k which is basically a steal (especially considering what I had to pay for an apartment...)

Michela Marie 🇨🇦Feb 22

@Gina Vancouver and Victoria Canada actually aren’t cold, and it’s amazing here — fantastic cities surrounded by nature — mountains, rainforest, and the sea. It’s a diverse, tolerant place with one of the most educated workforces in the world and many career opportunities.

Canada is a beautiful, ambitious, and kind country, with intelligent and thoughtful leadership, and we are building an exciting, positive future.

Michela Marie 🇨🇦Feb 22

@Gina

We are always happy to have more good, smart, compassionate people here in Canada to help us realize our vision, and to share in our bright future. I recommend including it in your consideration set. Feel free to ask me if you have any questions about living or working here. 🙂

@michelamarie I'd like to buy a house with a garden, do you see that happening anywhere in Canada for under a million dollars?

Michela Marie 🇨🇦Feb 22

@Gina Good question. It is possible, if you live farther away from Vancouver. Victoria is more affordable, so you could buy a house closer to the city there than you could do in Vancouver.

If you are happy to live in a townhouse, you could live closer to the cities still.

Wouter 🇳🇱🇧🇷🇧🇪Feb 22

@Gina I read your posts about moving with a lot of interest!

Bobo_PK 🦄Feb 22

@Gina Spain. Good weather, fiber at home in 2 days, cheaper living conditions, healthcare is cheap or included and the people are also lovely.

libUnderseaMonkey.so 🇪🇺Feb 22

@Gina That's really interesting because, despite the rise of Wilders and his ilk, the perception in the UK (or at least, in GenX) is of NL as a bastion of liberalism.

Travis F W Feb 22

@Gina moving away has been in my backlog for a looong time. problem is always where to move to that isn't worse. like getting a job, probably the people are the biggest question, and hardest question for me to answer. very curious to follow your thoughts and decision.

Martin Marconcini Feb 22

@Gina is your hate for the NL public? I'm curious what makes you dislike it so much. (I imagine the weather and the latitude aren't helping)

@gryzor the weather, it's crowded, zero nature, super expensive, ugly architecture outside of the main tourist areas (look up "rijtjeshuis"), taxes are insane, shitty healthcare, low quality food, very restrictive policies leading to immediate fines for everything, and most of all, lack of sunshine.

Edit: it rained horizontally today. Just no.

Martin Marconcini Feb 22

@Gina makes sense. Thanks.

richarddebruin Feb 22

@Gina @gryzor mmmm het gras is altijd groener bij de buren. Maar zo te zien Luxemburg 😅. En anders Drenthe 😉

@richarddebruin @gryzor leugens 🥲