Ω 🌍 Gus PoseyFeb 21

RE: https://vis.social/@infobeautiful/116109430224379547

So let me get this straight:

- Solar panels are more efficient and easier to install.
- They're becoming shockingly cheap, like TVs.
- They last much longer than expected.
- They provide unexpected environmental benefits.

That's a done deal.

#Solarpunk

Show threadlin11c
@Gustodon
They don't require being connected to a grid, correct? That could be a real plus in the future world chaos. Don't need AI either. 😆
Feb 21 at 5:12pmWeb
Show threadΩ 🌍 Gus PoseyFeb 21
@lin11c No grid required. Obviously people do both, but it's possible to be completely self-sufficient in terms of energy, or to have it as a backup, as you suggest, if the grid is destroyed.
Show threadlin11cFeb 21
@Gustodon
A more perfect energy solution has never existed! Why don't more people take advantage of this. Cities!
Show threadChao-c'Feb 21

@lin11c @Gustodon the only problem is, that in temperate climate zone, you have winter. During winter, the production goes as low as 10% and only for few hours per day.

Cloudy days and nights are mostly ok during summer, when the batteries can recharge only after few hours of sunlight.

This means, that we still need some backup sources during winter. And this is the only issue, because scalable long term accumulation is still not easy.

Show threadΩ 🌍 Gus PoseyFeb 21
@xChaos Agreed. But we also need to really ask ourselves what needs electricity and what doesn't. I don't know enough about it to say but even the idea that it's always turned on might be an error.
Show threadNeo EhproqueFeb 21
@Gustodon @xChaos heating is a big one I'm afraid, especially during winter
(However, house insulation should come first)
Show threadJonathan HartleyFeb 21
@xChaos @lin11c @Gustodon You are right, of course. People will fight against sustainable energy use until the externalities eventually get so bad that the transition will force itself upon us, and at that point it will be a sudden, unplanned catastrophe, rather than the gradual planned transition we could afford to make if we start now.
Show threadlin11cFeb 21
@xChaos @Gustodon
Yes of course that's true. Storing excess capacity in batteries becomes important, and from my understanding, the batteries are getting a lot better. We must thwart the planned obsolescence that is now rampant in our capitalist "democracies". They won't allow for products that last for decades. There must be constant replacements, upgrades, and a large "profit" for shareholders. That's where all progress crumbles and fails. It's not allowed!!
Show threadChao-c'Feb 21

@lin11c @Gustodon unlike plastic crap, with batteries, the obsolescence is not really planned. Of course, the best available technology may not be available, for example because of stockpiles of old stuff or licensing issues, but mostly I beleive it is just really because existing level of technology.

In most of temperate climate zone, you can get energy autonomy with solar panels and battery for 8 months per year, but the winter season would be really tricky, even when burning wood for heating. But selling excess energy to grid and buying it during winter can be way to go. The regulations required for doing this are slowly getting better.

Show threadfluffy 💜Feb 21
@xChaos @lin11c @Gustodon in seattle the grid storage math works out really well. My power utility just charges me around $10/month for the grid connection (which I’d have anyway) and then essentially runs my meter in reverse when I’m generating excess power, so there’s no real financial incentive to me getting a battery.
Show threadlin11cFeb 21
@fluffy @xChaos @Gustodon
That's a great system!
Show threadlin11cFeb 21
@xChaos @Gustodon
It sounds like there are solutions. Wind might fill in too? I like these better than nuclear.
Show threadChao-c'Feb 22

@lin11c almost everybody likes almost anything more, than nuclear. But natural gas is so cheap, that possible accumulation solutions are not competitive.

Another solution would be huge seasonal differences in prices of electricity, which would force shutting down of certain industrial processes during winter. But it may be problem to protect households from high prices during winter. This is why general public will always call for cheap natural gas, just like bread and games in Rome.

Small scale, off-the-grid seasonal storage is something almost everybody dreams about. Besides free home energy it would mean also free charging of electric cars and much more...

@Gustodon

Show threadlin11cFeb 22
@xChaos @Gustodon
From my observations, because of AI future power needs, there is a lot more discussion lately of adding new nuclear plants to the mix. A very bad path to go down IMO unless there is some new technology to reduce the waste. They also need massive amounts of water just like AI data centers.
Show threadChao-c'Feb 22

@lin11c yes, there is project to replace existing nuclear power plants with new blocks, in my country. The public support for this is huge (which means, that "nobody really wants it except here").

https://faculty.cc.gatech.edu/~beki/cs4001/Winner.pdf
"The increased deployment of
nuclear power facilities must lead society toward authoritarianism. Indeed, safe
reliance upon nuclear power as the principal source of energy may be possible only in a totalitarian state."

The AI training is typical example of something, which can be restricted to summer season of cheap solar and doesn't need to be done when energy is expensive (unless you can reuse waste heat, which should be possible, BTW... we are doing it with our small "traditional", non-AI datacenter)

@Gustodon

Show threadToroidalCoreFeb 22

@xChaos @lin11c @Gustodon This is sort of why electric grids were built out in the first place, to better match supply and demand and allow different sources to operate more efficiently.

Doing solar at scale (as opposed to isolated off-grid systems) is going to need more transmission in addition to storage. The energy is there, but we don't have as much experience harvesting solar vs the other forms.

Show threadHugs4friends ♾🇺🇦 🇵🇸😷Feb 22
@xChaos That's what batteries are for. @lin11c @Gustodon
Show threadfluffy 💜Feb 21
@lin11c @Gustodon if you want to go off-grid you need a large battery storage system and those are still pretty expensive and prone to wear. Hopefully sodium batteries will improve that situation.