Dave S
Greenpeace International13,335 millionaires in France paid ZERO income tax in 2024.
The system is broken.
It’s time for a UN Tax Convention to make the super-rich pay their fair share and fund climate action. #TaxTheSuperRich
Don Hawkins - W7DAH
RantingCanuckSimply putting a $1M limit on unrealised gains not being subject to taxation would immediately subject the super-rich to taxation because they would no longer be able to stash their hoards of wealth in stocks then borrow against them.
Patch You Up@RantingCanuck @greenpeace Agree 100%
Once you use an asset as collateral, it should immediately be classified as something that has that value (a "realized gain") and therefore subject to capital gains taxation. I get that (in the USA at least), capital gains tax is much lower than it should be, but simply reclassifying what counts would be a big step forward.
Once you use an asset as collateral, it should immediately be classified as something that has that value (a "realized gain") and therefore subject to capital gains taxation. I get that (in the USA at least), capital gains tax is much lower than it should be, but simply reclassifying what counts would be a big step forward.
I'd 100% support that policy
Rickd6@greenpeace there are so many countries that would benefit from taxing the rich. Why not start an asset tax? Rather than income the tax is based on the assets you control/ own - if nothing else it should take them a while to figure out the loopholes.
Greg Harvey 🌍@greenpeace @rachel I don't understand how they do it. I mean, there *are* taxes. I get that these people have a lot of wealth wrapped up in assets, but sooner or later the money has to come out of a business and into somebody's personal finances to be spent. Dividends are taxed at 30%, how are they not at least paying that? Do they live in France, or are we talking about millionaires with French assets?
Rachel Lawson@greg_harvey @greenpeace you make the business in France, let’s say, run at a loss by having it buy “consultancy services” from your company in another country. Then, that other business runs a trust that pays for things you need. You never see the actual money, just the benefits.
@greg_harvey @greenpeace (I once worked for the Sackler family)
@rachel @greenpeace So you never have any *actual* personal money? And the trusts don't pay tax?
@rachel @greenpeace Because if I live in France and some trust fund in Jersey pays me €5,000 a month to live on, I absolutely have to pay personal income tax on that money. And 1.5% tax on whatever is in the trust fund. So again, I don't get how they pay ZERO tax. Even if they never pull money out of the trust (and I'd be astounded if there wasn't income tax to pay for BIK, unless that's some horrendous loophole) there's still a 1.5% levy, wherever it is in the world. If you live in France.
@greg_harvey @greenpeace ah but you are a resident of France. If you declared yourself a non resident, had a house in three countries and moved between them, happy days
@rachel That being the case, "13,335 millionaires in France" is misleading, because they're categorically not "in France" for anything more than an extended holiday. Plus any French property in trust would ALSO be subject to a 3% tax, even if you don't live in France. So the château/fancy Parisian apartment they spent the 3 months in *would* be taxed, even if it were in a foreign trust and they *didn't* live in France. I mean, the French government is generally pretty good at taxing. 🤷 😉
@rachel Plus the French cast aside the 6 month rule if you don't live anywhere for 6 months, and consider the place you lived in for the longest period to be your tax residence. If they catch you, it's ugly. (See Valentino Rossi in Italy, they caught him with mobile phone records and made an example of him.)
As I say, I'm all for taxing the shit out of them, but I think "zero income tax" is misleading, because the emphasis is on income. Often passive income is taxed elsewhere, but it is taxed.
@greg_harvey honestly, doing it in UK is easy. I imagine France much, much harder.
@rachel I think you'd have to actually lie. I can see someone not paying *income* tax, but there'd be all kinds of other taxes they'd be liable for. They're obviously not using trust fund payments because that *would* come under income tax. Wouldn't surprise me if they paid themselves entirely in dividends, which would be some 20+% cheaper if you're a high earner, but still 30%.
@rachel @greenpeace Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they're paying far less tax than you or I, and I absolutely think they should be taxed the shit out of, but I just don't see how a FRENCH millionaire can pay zero tax. Like actually ZERO. Because even trusts held abroad are taxable with a fine of €20,000 per offence if you fail to declare them. 🤷