@musevg @glyph @georgetakei @petrillic

obama is arguing for effective action against fascists

how do you read that as bowing to fascists?

@glyph @musevg @georgetakei @petrillic

well said and agreed

i read it as obama asking for no infighting, because the problem with the left is we shoot at each other and we don't shoot at the right

but perhaps i read that wrong and obama is asking people not to scold the right, which is indeed terrible advice

by the same token, nobody fucking cares about the democratic party. we just take it over with real leftists. in such a way, the entire topic of "the democratic party" is a red herring

@glyph @petrillic @benroyce @georgetakei @musevg regardless of what you think about Obama’s politics: The man knows how to sell.

That is what the left needs to learn. And scolding, generally, isn’t the way. Hopes and dreams and agency and dignity are.

@thelovebing @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg

i personally believe we need to ramp up the scolding of MAGA

not taking a strong stand against MAGA dampens all enthusiasm on the left

however, the infighting, the scolding within the left out of toxic idealism definitely needs to end

@benroyce @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg

The way I see it rethoric is a tool. Tools should be chosen and used according to strategy.

"Taking a strong stance" isn't synonomous with calling people assholes. I'm not saying you shouldn't think they're assholes (obviously they are), but saying it isn't necessarily the best way to win. King, Gandhi, Mandela didn't. And their stances were pretty strong, don't you think?

@thelovebing @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg

you have a pop culture impression of these leaders

the british engaged with the "nonviolent" gandhi because violence from others was waiting. they didn't want to deal with the violent option. dealing with gandhi made the colonizer look magnanimous, and the violent option faded from memory. but it was there

if there was no violent option waiting, gandhi would not have succeeded

likewise, there's no MLK without Malcolm X

and they knew:

@benroyce @thelovebing @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg

I'm British Asian, my mums side of the family are Tamil Indians from Malaysia and I can confirm with Mohandas Gandhi this was exactly what happened.

There was also a significant portion of Indians who were prepared to align with the Axis (Germans and Japanese), so the British accepting Gandhi's demands helped combat this problem, but without that threat of violence (during an actual full on global war) he might not have had as much immediate success.

Also the fiasco of losing Singapore/Malaya to the Japanese and the British literally running away is a big factor in the further collapse of the Empire in SE Asia..

@vfrmedia @thelovebing @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg

exactly

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subhas_Chandra_Bose

@benroyce @vfrmedia @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg

You'll missing the point.

Think Zelenskij. He gets it. Warm. Humorous. Very serious, of course, and angry. But friendly. Likeable. Principled. Dignified.

Popular.

And in the end the most popular guy/idea usually wins.

@benroyce @vfrmedia @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg

And yes, against overwhelming odds the popular guy may still lose. Of course.

But the unpopular guy is certain to do it.

This is not rocket science.

@thelovebing @vfrmedia @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg

ok but i'm not zelensky

i'm a hothead loudmouth

do you see some sort of political future for me? that's very flattering but i don't think so

so i will continue to call morons, morons

frankly, i have nothing but withering disgust for "polite society"

"polite society" will let a malicious lie pass if said serenely. and clutch their pearls if someone says "fuck"

fuck that fucking nightmare existence of fakery

@benroyce @vfrmedia @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg

You are still missing the point, I'm guessing because you're too angry to be smart. Or maybe too interested in being right to get it right.

And that is, I believe, the exact reason progressives don't progress so well.

Gotta have a strategy. Gotta combine (and this is where so, so many fail) bone hard principles with pragmatism.

It's not easy.

@thelovebing @vfrmedia @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg

we did what you said already, and MAGA did not care

in fact, the noble approach you refer to was simply used against us and they advanced anyways

the high road does not work

everyone on the left in the usa now is screaming for a forceful stand, and are disgusted with your approach

sorry, but you're full of shit

and i envy your charmed naive life free of this sort of adversity. cherish it. but don't lecture others from luxury

@benroyce @vfrmedia @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg

What the fuck are you on about? No, you didn't. Or if you did you did it so damn badly it didn't show across the pond. If you had you wouldn't even be in this situation. The right wing fuck have (in their own way, which can't be our way) for decades. And in that regard we have the exact same situation here. I wrote about it back in 2010, possibly even 2005.

Strategy, or lack thereof, is how we got here.

@thelovebing @vfrmedia @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg

wow there's a lot of "fuck"s there, VBK

you should learn to take the high road and not give in to your baser instincts. control yourself

I'm guessing because you're too angry to be smart. Or maybe too interested in being right to get it right

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